<?xml version='1.0' encoding='UTF-8'?><?xml-stylesheet href="http://www.blogger.com/styles/atom.css" type="text/css"?><feed xmlns='http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom' xmlns:openSearch='http://a9.com/-/spec/opensearchrss/1.0/' xmlns:georss='http://www.georss.org/georss' xmlns:gd='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005' xmlns:thr='http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0'><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256</id><updated>2011-08-08T04:01:25.428-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Full Court Presby</title><subtitle type='html'>Critical look at the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.).</subtitle><link rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#feed' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default?max-results=100'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/'/><link rel='hub' href='http://pubsubhubbub.appspot.com/'/><link rel='next' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default?start-index=101&amp;max-results=100'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><generator version='7.00' uri='http://www.blogger.com'>Blogger</generator><openSearch:totalResults>435</openSearch:totalResults><openSearch:startIndex>1</openSearch:startIndex><openSearch:itemsPerPage>100</openSearch:itemsPerPage><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-779076913565907756</id><published>2009-12-01T08:38:00.001-08:00</published><updated>2009-12-01T08:38:33.539-08:00</updated><title type='text'>Thank you!</title><content type='html'>Dear Readers,&lt;br /&gt;Thank you for following this blog.  Within the next twelve months I will be involved in a “project” that is in a country that is VERY unfriendly to Jesus’ followers and any type of evangelism effort is against the law.  This “project” is with a previously “unreached” people group.  There have been a couple of people who have given their lives to Jesus as a result of this project.  So that my presence will not hind this important Kingdom work, I will be deleting the content of any of my church-related blogs.  All blog content will be deleted before January 1, 2010.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I pray that you will draw close to Jesus this Advent.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Additionally, please pray for the efforts to reach the wonderful folks of this people group. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;God’s blessings upon you!!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Lance&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-779076913565907756?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/779076913565907756/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=779076913565907756' title='21 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/779076913565907756'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/779076913565907756'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2009/12/thank-you.html' title='Thank you!'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>21</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-4551949541814603076</id><published>2008-12-23T08:57:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2008-12-23T09:02:35.750-08:00</updated><title type='text'>Preparing for Christmas in a “winter-wonderland.”</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SVEZoLCG7TI/AAAAAAAAAlA/gUpjoACKQwg/s1600-h/DSC_0316.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SVEZoLCG7TI/AAAAAAAAAlA/gUpjoACKQwg/s320/DSC_0316.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5283032015829396786" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SVEZnrbK65I/AAAAAAAAAk4/3X_xuA2EPyw/s1600-h/DSC_0240.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SVEZnrbK65I/AAAAAAAAAk4/3X_xuA2EPyw/s320/DSC_0240.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5283032007344581522" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SVEZnGJIedI/AAAAAAAAAkw/Qb7dgdmN_ls/s1600-h/DSC_0050.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SVEZnGJIedI/AAAAAAAAAkw/Qb7dgdmN_ls/s320/DSC_0050.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5283031997336811986" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SVEZmwtWx7I/AAAAAAAAAko/1LOs6tL-EY4/s1600-h/DSC_0135.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SVEZmwtWx7I/AAAAAAAAAko/1LOs6tL-EY4/s320/DSC_0135.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5283031991583164338" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A few more dahlia pics before getting to the blog.  These dahlias are from my 2008 garden.  The dahlias in the order they appear are: Parkland Rave, Penhill Watermellon, Pinelands Pixie, and Powder Gull. Check out my dahlia web site (&lt;a href="http://thedahliaguy.com/"&gt;The Dahlia Guy&lt;/a&gt;) for the complete set of photos and more dahlia information.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Western Washington is under an unprecedented layer of snow and ice.  The airport is filled with people that have had their flight canceled-Christmas hopes and dreams are on hold.  Gas stations are running out of the “stuff” that our cars run on.  Power has been out. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Our family is experiencing the travel crunch.  Our daughter will finally make it home tomorrow (Christmas Eve day) from the mission field in the Sahara Desert after getting caught in the airline “mess” with her connecting flight here in the US.  My dad will arrive on Christmas afternoon-another weather casualty.  Oh well, everyone is safe and we will have a great celebration of the Savior’s birth.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Flexibility is the name of the game.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Our church is located just off of state highway 161—just before the top of a LARGE hill.  The small “street” that leads to our parking lot is steep, steep, steep.  This past week, cars with studded tires couldn’t make it up the hill.  Those that did make it up (four wheel drive vehicles) had to worry about the descent of the hill and being able to stop before sliding out onto the highway.  Events have had to be rescheduled or canceled due to safety concerns.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is suppose to snow tonight and tomorrow morning—Christmas Eve day.  It will turn to rain by mid day and freeze before Christmas Eve worship.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The barn where we hold our late-night service is just a half mile from the church.  A four wheel drive vehicle is currently needed to negotiate the road into the barn and the parking area.  It is going to be a mess on Christmas Eve.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Mary and Joseph experienced a “mess” on that first Christmas.  I cannot even imagine what the trip to Bethlehem would have been like for a pregnant Mary.  I cannot imagine what it would have been like to give birth in a barn—away from immediate family and friends.  Flexibility was the name of the game.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We will have a great Christmas—even if we have to “alter” our original worship and family plans.  We are celebrating the birth of our Savior!  Praise be to God!  Emmanuel—God with us!!&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-4551949541814603076?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/4551949541814603076/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=4551949541814603076' title='1 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/4551949541814603076'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/4551949541814603076'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/12/preparing-for-christmas-in-winter.html' title='Preparing for Christmas in a “winter-wonderland.”'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SVEZoLCG7TI/AAAAAAAAAlA/gUpjoACKQwg/s72-c/DSC_0316.JPG' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>1</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-4548935712271949165</id><published>2008-12-10T09:38:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2008-12-10T10:26:54.128-08:00</updated><title type='text'>“Out of the box” thinking needed—part 3.</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SUAJ4595etI/AAAAAAAAAkg/2RHe3rK7QbE/s1600-h/DSC_0036.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SUAJ4595etI/AAAAAAAAAkg/2RHe3rK7QbE/s320/DSC_0036.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5278229636515986130" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SUAJ4QmUEXI/AAAAAAAAAkY/V5L4uSB6eWk/s1600-h/DSC_0156.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SUAJ4QmUEXI/AAAAAAAAAkY/V5L4uSB6eWk/s320/DSC_0156.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5278229625411211634" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SUAJ4HD0yZI/AAAAAAAAAkQ/sKSoIGuKRy0/s1600-h/DSC_0098.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SUAJ4HD0yZI/AAAAAAAAAkQ/sKSoIGuKRy0/s320/DSC_0098.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5278229622850636178" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SUAJ3tDmXLI/AAAAAAAAAkI/iVRLoBLyAek/s1600-h/DSC_0235.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SUAJ3tDmXLI/AAAAAAAAAkI/iVRLoBLyAek/s320/DSC_0235.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5278229615870368946" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A few more dahlia pics before getting to the blog.  These dahlias are from my 2008 garden.  The dahlias in the order they appear are: Narrow’s Tricia, Nanakazi, Oretti Adele and Pam Howden. Check out my dahlia web site (&lt;a href="http://thedahliaguy.com/"&gt;The Dahlia Guy&lt;/a&gt;) for the complete set of photos and more dahlia information.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This series of posts is looking at creative ideas for meeting the needs of those in, and around, our congregations and communities during these difficult economic times.  The ideas I have suggested to this point are:&lt;br /&gt;• Idea #1:  Host a community garden at the church.&lt;br /&gt;• Idea #2:  Free lunches for seniors two or three times a week.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The third idea came from an observation from our Thanksgiving dinner delivery team.  We work through a local, high need, elementary school.  The school sends out a notice that there is assistance available for families in need.  Families respond to the school with information on the family:  number of people, ages and what the kids would like for Christmas.  Our delivery teams noticed a new tendency—families sharing housing during these difficult economic times.  Homes where we expected one parent with two kids might have had another parent (a sibling, for example) move in with his, or her, children.  This living situation makes it cheaper for both families.  This brings me to idea #3.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Idea #3:  shared housing.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Lavern and Shirley (fictitious names representing real people) were two elderly women at Evergreen when I was first called to be the pastor of the church.  These elderly ladies each lived in mobile homes and had very little in the way of money.  Lavern had recently moved into a “new” double-wide mobile home because her son and moved in with her.  Finances were still very tight.  Shirley began to have some “balance” issues—she fell a couple of times.  Things were getting to the point where Shirley could not live alone—she could not afford to move into a retirement home.  Lavern and Shirley came up with the idea of shared housing.  Shirley helped out with the payment on the mobile home; Lavern helped Shirley with things some things that she could not do on her own.  The living situation worked well until Shirley’s health took a serious turn for the worse and she had to move into a nursing home.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Shared housing could be one way of coping with these challenging financial times.  Our churches have people that have “empty” rooms in their homes.  Maybe, just maybe, these rooms could be opened up to those in the church family that are in need.  Many seniors live by themselves in larger houses.  Is it possible that they could share their housing with a friend in need?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Just a thought.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-4548935712271949165?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/4548935712271949165/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=4548935712271949165' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/4548935712271949165'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/4548935712271949165'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/12/out-of-box-thinking-neededpart-3.html' title='“Out of the box” thinking needed—part 3.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SUAJ4595etI/AAAAAAAAAkg/2RHe3rK7QbE/s72-c/DSC_0036.JPG' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-9153178956189785393</id><published>2008-12-09T08:27:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2008-12-10T09:38:09.361-08:00</updated><title type='text'>“Out of the box” thinking needed—part 2.</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/ST6di-JbxoI/AAAAAAAAAkA/-m3R-hsFdCw/s1600-h/DSC_0245.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/ST6di-JbxoI/AAAAAAAAAkA/-m3R-hsFdCw/s320/DSC_0245.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5277829037448480386" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/ST6dhGCElhI/AAAAAAAAAj4/FAA_C-ADP1o/s1600-h/DSC_0135.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/ST6dhGCElhI/AAAAAAAAAj4/FAA_C-ADP1o/s320/DSC_0135.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5277829005205345810" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/ST6dgDTOttI/AAAAAAAAAjw/U3OqFJDYc8I/s1600-h/DSC_0577.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/ST6dgDTOttI/AAAAAAAAAjw/U3OqFJDYc8I/s320/DSC_0577.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5277828987292137170" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/ST6debAcVRI/AAAAAAAAAjo/vpitSq_Xtqc/s1600-h/DSC_0166.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/ST6debAcVRI/AAAAAAAAAjo/vpitSq_Xtqc/s320/DSC_0166.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5277828959296050450" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A few more dahlia pics before getting to the blog.  These dahlias are from my 2008 garden.  The dahlias in the order they appear are: Mingus Tony, Miss Rose Fletcher, Ms Kennedy and Nanna’s Kiss.  Check out my dahlia web site (&lt;a href="http://thedahliaguy.com/"&gt;The Dahlia Guy&lt;/a&gt;) for the complete set of photos and more dahlia information.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;After taking some time off for the Thanksgiving holiday---I’m back!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“Lance’s Lectern” is my column in our church’s monthly newsletter. My December column was very different than a “typical” December column.  Yes, I did comment on Advent and Christmas.  Yet, the bulk of the column was about the current economic crisis in America (and the world).  It has been said that “the cream rises to the top.”  Now is the time for Christ’s followers (and the church) to step up and make a difference.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What can Christ’s followers and his church be doing to assist the folks in our communities that are hurting.  “Out-of-the-box” thinking is encouraged!  This is a time for brainstorming—no negative comments about suggestions will be tolerated!  (Note:  I know that people all around the world need assistance—right now I am just focusing on our neighbors.)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Idea #2—Free lunches for seniors two or three times a week.  Children from lower income families receive free or reduced lunches and breakfasts at school.  There is no senior center (or any other organization) offering free lunches for seniors.  You may ask, “Why free lunches?”  or, “Why for seniors?”  Many seniors are on fixed incomes.  Many others have had their retirement accounts decimated in the past few months.  Senior are being faced with buying food or paying for heat.  Offering free lunches for seniors will address both of these needs—food and heat!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What are your ideas?&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-9153178956189785393?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/9153178956189785393/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=9153178956189785393' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/9153178956189785393'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/9153178956189785393'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/12/out-of-box-thinking-neededpart-2.html' title='“Out of the box” thinking needed—part 2.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/ST6di-JbxoI/AAAAAAAAAkA/-m3R-hsFdCw/s72-c/DSC_0245.JPG' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-3277288940454334249</id><published>2008-12-03T09:24:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2008-12-03T09:29:29.513-08:00</updated><title type='text'>“Out of the box” thinking needed!</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/STbB7vtDhYI/AAAAAAAAAjE/4AbWO09gQy8/s1600-h/DSC_0060.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/STbB7vtDhYI/AAAAAAAAAjE/4AbWO09gQy8/s320/DSC_0060.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5275617245672998274" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/STbB7fFNZbI/AAAAAAAAAi8/P_THVHrzvzk/s1600-h/DSC_0399.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/STbB7fFNZbI/AAAAAAAAAi8/P_THVHrzvzk/s320/DSC_0399.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5275617241210906034" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/STbB65EYC6I/AAAAAAAAAi0/w5SH4MrdTtY/s1600-h/DSC_0598.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/STbB65EYC6I/AAAAAAAAAi0/w5SH4MrdTtY/s320/DSC_0598.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5275617231006862242" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/STbB6k70AeI/AAAAAAAAAis/xaZaQBAaAro/s1600-h/DSC_0127.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/STbB6k70AeI/AAAAAAAAAis/xaZaQBAaAro/s320/DSC_0127.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5275617225602236898" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A few more dahlia pics before getting to the blog.  These dahlias are from my 2008 garden.  The dahlias in the order they appear are: Kream Kerkrade, Lilac Time, Markie Re, and Midnight Moon.  Check out my dahlia web site (&lt;a href="http://thedahliaguy.com/"&gt;The Dahlia Guy&lt;/a&gt;) for the complete set of photos and more dahlia information.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;After taking some time off for the Thanksgiving holiday---I’m back!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“Lance’s Lectern” is my column in our church’s monthly newsletter. My December column was very different than a “typical” December column.  Yes, I did comment on Advent and Christmas.  Yet, the bulk of the column was about the current economic crisis in America (and the world).  It has been said that “the cream rises to the top.”  Now is the time for Christ’s followers (and the church) to step up and make a difference.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Each region of the country has its own economic challenges.  However, there are some things that remain the same.  They are:&lt;br /&gt;• Lines at food banks are longer than they have been in years.&lt;br /&gt;• Retirees are going back to work because their retirement funds have been decimated.&lt;br /&gt;• Food bank shelves are very bare—donations are down.&lt;br /&gt;• Ministries and agencies that help people who are behind in paying bills are strained to critical levels.&lt;br /&gt;• Businesses are laying off employees.&lt;br /&gt;• Restaurants are empty.&lt;br /&gt;• The list goes on and on and on.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Evergreen is helping more families than ever for Thanksgiving and Christmas.  We get our “families” from a local school.  The kids all receive free or reduced breakfasts and lunches due to family income level.  For Christmas, we provide at Christmas dinner, presents for everyone in the family and food for breakfasts, lunches and some dinners for the entire school break.  It is a HUGE project!  It is worth every penny that it costs.  Yet, this is not enough—it should be just the beginning.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The time has come for our churches to begin thinking outside of the box. How are we going to meet the ever expanding needs in our community?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There are two fronts that we need to be aware of.  These fronts are:&lt;br /&gt;• Front #1:  People in our congregation—There are people in our congregations that are struggling financially.  We need to provide a safe setting where people can freely talk about their current economic situation.  We need to let them know that there is nothing to be embarrassed about.  The book of Acts is filled with examples of Christ’s followers selling their possessions to help other believers who are in need.  These passages should cause us to ask, “What can I do to help the needy who are in my church?”&lt;br /&gt;• Front #2:  People in my community—Each of our communities is filled with people who are struggling financially.  Some of these folks have never been in such a position before.  These folks need a social safety net at a time when such services are overwhelmed.  The Bible is filled with calls to assist those in need.  These passages should cause us to ask, “What can I do to help the needy in my community?”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This week I would like this blog to be a place for people to post their “ideas” for how to make a difference.  “Out-of-the-box” thinking is encouraged!  This is a time for brainstorming—no negative comments about suggestions will be tolerated!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Idea #1 from Evergreen—We are going to host a free community garden this year.  A family in our church has a small business (three greenhouses) that sells flowers and vegetable plants.  Last spring they sold out of their entire supply of vegetable plants.  People who never had a garden were longing to learn how to grow and preserve their own food.  Most of these folks were wishing to do this for economic reasons.  We are planning on setting aside a portion of our property for the garden.  Our local water company is providing the water line and meter (free of charge) so that we will have water for the garden.  We will offer classes on gardening and food preservation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;More ideas in the coming days.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What are your ideas?&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-3277288940454334249?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/3277288940454334249/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=3277288940454334249' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/3277288940454334249'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/3277288940454334249'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/12/out-of-box-thinking-needed.html' title='“Out of the box” thinking needed!'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/STbB7vtDhYI/AAAAAAAAAjE/4AbWO09gQy8/s72-c/DSC_0060.JPG' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-4374206827180545744</id><published>2008-11-21T09:23:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2008-11-21T09:28:12.714-08:00</updated><title type='text'>Presbytery Approves New Discernment Process!</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSbvpGTX1AI/AAAAAAAAAbo/U40yrjH9Vnw/s1600-h/DSC_0378.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSbvpGTX1AI/AAAAAAAAAbo/U40yrjH9Vnw/s320/DSC_0378.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5271163903229285378" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSbvo3i6jSI/AAAAAAAAAbg/TO2iOFP76hU/s1600-h/DSC_0367.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSbvo3i6jSI/AAAAAAAAAbg/TO2iOFP76hU/s320/DSC_0367.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5271163899267943714" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSbvohDn9LI/AAAAAAAAAbY/G91pbqGje7k/s1600-h/DSC_0641.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSbvohDn9LI/AAAAAAAAAbY/G91pbqGje7k/s320/DSC_0641.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5271163893231121586" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSbvoB9I_6I/AAAAAAAAAbQ/cWxOniohdBo/s1600-h/DSC_0309.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSbvoB9I_6I/AAAAAAAAAbQ/cWxOniohdBo/s320/DSC_0309.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5271163884882427810" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A few more dahlia pics before getting to the blog.  These dahlias are from my 2008 garden.  The dahlias in the order they appear are: Kelvin Floodlight, Kenora Spirit, Kenora Wow and Kidd’s Climax.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Presbytery of Olympia approved the following policy document at yesterday’s presbytery meeting.  This was the second “reading” of the document.  The task force is still looking at writing a fourth section that will deal nets-and-bolts of the process for departure.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Following the document I will briefly comment on some aspects of the meeting.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;DISCERNING GOD’S LEADING TOGETHER&lt;br /&gt;Presbytery of Olympia&lt;br /&gt;Discernment and process for Presbytery and Congregations &lt;br /&gt;Considering Withdrawal from the Presbyterian Church (USA)&lt;br /&gt;PREAMBLE:  As we consider issues of denominational affiliation, we recognize and affirm that our indivisible unity is dependent upon our relationship through the Lordship of Jesus Christ, not the result of voluntary association (see also Book of Order, G-4.0200, the unity of the church).&lt;br /&gt;SECTION ONE --- DISCERNMENT&lt;br /&gt; Consideration by presbyteries and congregations of a church’s withdrawal from the Presbyterian Church (USA) (PC(USA)) must begin with agreement upon principles of discernment.  Spiritual discernment is a focused effort to sort out the will of God, distinguishing God’s Spirit from other spirits that may be influencing us, such as the spirit of tradition, legalism, anger, loyalty, self-will or control. Discernment of God’s Spirit requires intentional prayer, careful study, and deep listening to God and to each other.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Let us be led by the words of St. Paul:  “I therefore, the prisoner in the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, making every effort to maintain the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace.  There is one body and one spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in all.”  (Ephesians 4:1-5)  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; We, the members of the Presbytery of Olympia, will seek to honor Jesus Christ, Scripture, the Book of Confessions, and the Book of Order through respectful process and open dialogue. The premise upon which our process is built is that when we approach discernment together with intentionality, sincerity, openness to the leading of the Holy Spirit, and through the authority of the Word of God, the will of God will be revealed. &lt;br /&gt; Discerning God’s Leading Together guides congregations and the Presbytery, working in partnership, toward answering the questions, “Is God leading this particular congregation to disaffiliate from the PC(USA)?”  And if so, “how can that be accomplished in a way that honors Christ’s mission in the world and that seeks to strengthen both the congregation and the Presbytery”?&lt;br /&gt; The ultimate goal of the Presbytery will be to discern whether God is calling a congregation to reconciliation and continued relationship with the PC(USA), or to withdrawal from the denomination. This discernment will be accomplished in a spirit of pastoral consideration, not by formal confrontation.  The following process outlines the principles we will use as a presbytery, and that will be used by our congregations, to respond to situations where our congregations are considering withdrawal from the PC(USA). &lt;br /&gt; We will seek to respect both freedom of conscience and the essentials of Reformed Faith and polity as expressed in The Book of Confessions and the “Form of Government,” subject always to Scripture and the movement of the Spirit.  We will work in good faith toward a mutually agreeable solution, but ultimately the decision reached through this process should reflect what would best serve not ourselves, but the cause of Christ.&lt;br /&gt;SECTION TWO  --- STATEMENT OF PRINCIPLES&lt;br /&gt;1. Faithful departures.  A congregation discerning that it must leave the PC(USA) may be faithfully following the will of God for that particular church body. &lt;br /&gt;2. Commitment to avoid litigation.  In fulfillment of Resolution 04-28, adopted by the 218th General Assembly, we recognize that the exercise of the process to “divide, dismiss, or dissolve churches in consultation with their members” (Book of Order, G-11.0103), if accomplished by litigation, “is deadly to the cause of Christ . . . and our witness to Christ in the world around us.”  Therefore we will carefully follow the principles of consistency, pastoral responsibility, accountability, gracious witness, openness and transparency.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;3. Open Communication.  We affirm the right of Pastors and Elders to discuss options for responding to the actions of the Presbytery, Synod, and General Assembly.&lt;br /&gt;4. “Early entry” conversations.  Pastors and/or Sessions which begin intentional and sustained discussions about separation from PC(USA) will invite Presbytery participation through the General Presbyter and the Care Team representative, or other Committee on Ministry designee.  The General Presbyter would also be expected to make pastoral contact with any congregation that is understood to be struggling with its future in the PC(USA).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;5.   Congregational Gatherings.  Whenever any congregational gatherings involving withdrawal considerations are held, Presbytery representatives will be invited to participate and speak.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;6. Presbytery teams.  To ensure adequate communication between the particular church and the Presbytery, teams will be formed as needed.  These are as follows:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A. For the Discernment Process (Section Three) a Discernment Team will be formed, comprised of balanced representation from the affected congregation and COM appointees [representation detailed in Section Three].  The Discernment Team will assist and support the congregation as it discerns the future of its affiliation with the PC(USA) and will ensure that the Council is apprised of ongoing conversations and discernment. People trained in conflict resolution will be available throughout the process.  &lt;br /&gt;B. If the process proceeds to final negotiations over terms of separation, the Presbytery shall elect an Administrative Commission as its representative, with clearly defined responsibilities established by vote of the Presbytery.  COM is encouraged to nominate members of the Discernment Team to be considered for the Administrative Commission. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;7. Presbytery – congregation contacts.  Presbytery has a responsibility to ensure that all active members of a congregation are involved in any discernment process.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;8. Commitment to negotiate.  If a congregation and its leadership faithfully follow this policy and reach the conclusion that separation from the PC(USA) is the will of God, then the Session and Presbytery will negotiate in good faith to reach a fair, just and reasonable dismissal agreement.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;9. Trust clause.  All property in the PC(USA) is held in trust for the use and benefit of the Presbyterian Church (USA) (Book of Order, G-8.0201).  Decisions about property will be made around future ministry and mission concerns for both the congregation seeking dismissal and the PC(USA).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;10. Faithfulness to past members’ intentions. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;11. Media contacts.  Presbytery and the Session will work together to create a media plan, designating who will provide information to the media from the Presbytery and the Session, and committing to work in concert on such contacts in order to maintain a witness to Christ in the world.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;12. Case-by-case application of principles.  This policy establishes principles for discernment in situations where withdrawal from the PC(USA) is being considered.  Each situation will be uniquely addressed on its own merits, using the principles set forth in this policy.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;13. Book of Order.  This policy is expressly subject to all existing provisions of the Book of Order.  No statement herein may be interpreted to contradict any specific provision of the Book of Order.  Further, in the event that the principles stated in this policy are not being followed, Presbytery may invoke other Book of Order process as needed.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;SECTION THREE  --- DISCERNMENT PROCESS&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1. Pastor(s) or Session(s) of congregation(s) which are considering the possibility of separation from the PC(USA) are encouraged to pray and openly discuss with one another the issues confronting their individual congregation.  When they begin intentional and sustained conversations concerning separation, they shall meet with the General Presbyter and a representative appointed by the Committee on Ministry (COM) to initiate communication between the congregation and the Presbytery.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2. To affirm the connectional nature of our relationships, those who are considering these matters are encouraged to hold shared discussions with other Pastors and Sessions for communal discernment.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;3. If further conversation about disaffiliation is desired/appropriate, the Session will invite COM to appoint two representatives to seek resolution and to advise the Session on the implications of considering disaffiliation.  The COM appointees will apprise the COM of the ongoing discernment of the Session.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;4. The Session, in conjunction with the COM appointees, will arrange one or more congregational gathering(s) to invite the members into a time of discernment, education and prayer.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;5. If the Session determines that the congregation desires to continue a process of discernment, the Session and the Presbytery will work together to form a Discernment Team (DT). The team will be comprised of the two COM appointees and two representatives chosen by the Session.  The DT will be responsible for recommending a discernment process to the Session.  Progress is to be reported regularly to COM.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;6. The DT will meet with the Session and its Moderator as ongoing discernment progresses.  If desired by either Session or the COM representatives, they will also meet with the congregation in appropriate gatherings. At any time during the discernment phase, a person trained in conflict resolution may be requested by the DT.  Possible topics for conversation include the following:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;• Reflecting on Scripture together and praying&lt;br /&gt;• Rooting the identified issues in Scripture and our Reformed Tradition, as reflected in the Constitution of the PC(USA).&lt;br /&gt;• The nature of discernment&lt;br /&gt;• Exploration of church polity including implications of the Trust Clause for both the congregation and also the Presbytery and denomination&lt;br /&gt;• Exploration of constitutional ways of influencing the polity of the PC(USA)&lt;br /&gt;• Options and ramifications of options before the congregation&lt;br /&gt;• Strategies for listening to any clearly identified factions within the congregation; in most instances, the decision to withdraw is a personal one, not a corporate one.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;7. When the DT has determined that all pertinent issues have been addressed, including identifying the reformed body to which the congregation would be dismissed, and that disaffiliation may be God’s will for that particular congregation, the DT will invite congregation members to gatherings that “afford to all persons to be affected by the decision fair notice and an opportunity to be heard on the matters at issue” (G-9.0505b1).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;8. The DT is required to be present at the gatherings and to serve as a resource for the congregation’s questions.  They are also tasked with making sure that all members have an opportunity to voice their concerns.  The DT will determine how many members wish to be dismissed to the identified reformed body, how many wish to remain part of an ongoing PC(USA) congregation, and how many are undecided at this time.  The DT will report to the COM whether an Administrative Commission will need to be appointed to carry the work forward.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;***&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The meeting was an excellent example of what is happening in the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.).&lt;br /&gt;• Early in the meeting a 90+ year old pastor gave a wonderful account of how the PCUSA welcomed him into the fold when he left the denomination where he was a pastor.  He stated that he felt the PCUSA was a loving place and that he would only leave the PCUSA when Christ called him home.&lt;br /&gt;• During our time of dealing with the “proposed” new policy, another pastor gave an eloquent presentation on why he wished we did not spend time on the original policy in May or on the current revision of that policy.  He felt that these efforts were keeping us from doing the work of Christ that desperately needs to be done.&lt;br /&gt;• At the end of the meeting (during Miscellaneous Business), a wonderful pastor who had just retired for the second time, stood before the presbytery and said that the denomination which he was ordained into had left him.  He instructed the Stated Clerk to remove his name from the rolls of the presbytery.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The depth of the brokenness of the PCUSA weighs heavily upon me.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-4374206827180545744?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/4374206827180545744/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=4374206827180545744' title='1 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/4374206827180545744'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/4374206827180545744'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/11/presbytery-approves-new-discernment.html' title='Presbytery Approves New Discernment Process!'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSbvpGTX1AI/AAAAAAAAAbo/U40yrjH9Vnw/s72-c/DSC_0378.JPG' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>1</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-7255557044274425001</id><published>2008-11-19T09:44:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2008-11-19T09:56:33.882-08:00</updated><title type='text'>A critical look at the 17th synod model.</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSRSs-th61I/AAAAAAAAAbI/Jrqq0rfZfbU/s1600-h/DSC_0085.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSRSs-th61I/AAAAAAAAAbI/Jrqq0rfZfbU/s320/DSC_0085.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5270428396632009554" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSRSsV1VHBI/AAAAAAAAAbA/cW_lPSh1cfA/s1600-h/DSC_0182.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSRSsV1VHBI/AAAAAAAAAbA/cW_lPSh1cfA/s320/DSC_0182.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5270428385658870802" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSRSsOCgx9I/AAAAAAAAAa4/p719_kSmLl0/s1600-h/DSC_0326.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSRSsOCgx9I/AAAAAAAAAa4/p719_kSmLl0/s320/DSC_0326.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5270428383566677970" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSRSrhlYMyI/AAAAAAAAAaw/9WwjPq9ccAo/s1600-h/DSC_0624.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSRSrhlYMyI/AAAAAAAAAaw/9WwjPq9ccAo/s320/DSC_0624.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5270428371633320738" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A few more dahlia pics before getting to the blog.  These dahlias are from my 2008 garden.  The dahlias in the order they appear are: Kasasagi, Keewatin Pioneer, Keith H and Kel Kel.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Presbyterians for Renewal (PFR) is proposing that the PCUSA create a 17th synod.  This synod would be a non-geographical synod that evangelical churches and presbyteries could join.  This synod would have its own set of ordination standards.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The positive side of the PFR proposal:&lt;br /&gt;1. It would provide a “place” in the PCUSA for evangelical congregations who disagree with the current denominational stance on the ordination of &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT"&gt;LGBT&lt;/a&gt;persons.  &lt;br /&gt;2. Congregations/presbyteries would still have access to the millions/billions of dollars in the Presbyterian Foundation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The negative side of the PFR proposal:&lt;br /&gt;1. The 17th synod model does not address the root cause of the ordination standards debate—the authority and interpretation of scripture.  There is no agreement on the person of Jesus:  born of a virgin, did miracles, bodily resurrection, etc.  There is no agreement that the only way to God is through Jesus—period.  There is no agreement on the nature of God.  The list of disagreements could go on and on.  How can the churches of this 17th synod continue to be a part of a denomination that has moved away from orthodox, biblical Christianity?&lt;br /&gt;2. The 17th synod model sacrifices biblical truths and teachings to the un-biblical position of unity at all costs.&lt;br /&gt;3. The 17th synod model would necessitate a total reworking of the PCUSA’s structure—and thus, will never happen.  The General Assembly would have to be modified to create a one headed monster with two bodies.  How would the PCUSA create a curriculum that would be used by both branches of the denomination?  How would the Washington D.C. office speak effectively for both branches of the denomination?  How would mission be accomplished when one branch may want to support mission efforts that the other branch would view as heretical?  How would the General Assembly and the General Assembly staff be divided to meet the needs of all PCUSA constituencies?  The 17th synod model would necessitate a total reworking of the PCUSA—from top to bottom.  It is never going to happen.&lt;br /&gt;4. The 17th synod model would necessitate a reworking of our seminaries.  The PCUSA does not “own” a single seminary.  There are seminaries that are related to be PCUSA—they are totally independent.  Would the seminaries have two sets of faculty—one set from the liberal/progressive camp and one set from the evangelical camp?&lt;br /&gt;5. In the 17th synod model, how would pastors move from the 17th synod to any other synod or from any of the other 16 synods into the 17th synod?  There are many churches that are made up of evangelical and progressive membes and not join the 17th synod.  How would an evangelical pastor receive a call to such a church from the 17th synod?  Would it be possible for a liberal/progressive pastor to become the pastor of an evangelical congregation in the 17th synod?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In summary, I do not understand how a person/pastor/church can believe that the PCUSA is doing “things” that are absolutely forbidden in scripture and still allow people and the denomination who are advocating the unbiblical positions to be in authority over them.  Such a position is unbiblical and unacceptable.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-7255557044274425001?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/7255557044274425001/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=7255557044274425001' title='10 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/7255557044274425001'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/7255557044274425001'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/11/critical-look-at-17th-synod-model.html' title='A critical look at the 17th synod model.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSRSs-th61I/AAAAAAAAAbI/Jrqq0rfZfbU/s72-c/DSC_0085.JPG' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>10</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-6531404975902629965</id><published>2008-11-17T09:01:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2008-11-17T09:11:36.266-08:00</updated><title type='text'>Presbyterians for Renewal—Their Plan Forward.</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSGkYZZ4svI/AAAAAAAAAao/zu0jsOIWVnk/s1600-h/DSC_0229.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSGkYZZ4svI/AAAAAAAAAao/zu0jsOIWVnk/s320/DSC_0229.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5269673778043466482" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSGkYAHdnqI/AAAAAAAAAag/B8NRpgvKP0M/s1600-h/Jax+2.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 286px;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSGkYAHdnqI/AAAAAAAAAag/B8NRpgvKP0M/s320/Jax+2.jpg" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5269673771255307938" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSGkX8isrzI/AAAAAAAAAaY/zw8p2cK98Do/s1600-h/Jayleene+G+2.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 293px;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSGkX8isrzI/AAAAAAAAAaY/zw8p2cK98Do/s320/Jayleene+G+2.jpg" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5269673770295799602" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSGkXow2gNI/AAAAAAAAAaQ/12CuBs7HQYs/s1600-h/DSC_0285.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSGkXow2gNI/AAAAAAAAAaQ/12CuBs7HQYs/s320/DSC_0285.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5269673764986454226" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A few more dahlia pics before getting to the blog.  These dahlias are from my 2008 garden.  The dahlias in the order they appear are: Islander, Jax, Jayleene G and Kari Quill.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.pfrenewal.org/"&gt;Presbyterians for Renewal&lt;/a&gt; (PFR) has been an important renewal group within the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.).  PFR has been instrumental in reaching out to pastors of smaller congregations through it’s &lt;a href="http://www.pfrenewal.org/ministries/wee-kirk"&gt;Wee Kirk&lt;/a&gt; Conferences.  PFR has also been a group that has labored to keep G-6.0106b (the “fidelity and chastity” section) in the Book of Order.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The 218th General Assembly of the PCUSA has caused PFR (as well as most renewal groups in the PCUSA) look at if, and how, the PCUSA can move forward.  Historically, PFR has been in the “stay, fight, win” camp.  “Stay, fight, win” is the philosophy of staying in the denomination, fighting for biblical faithfulness and standards and eventually winning the battle.  News flash—PFR has moved away from it’s “stay, fight, win” position.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Paul Detterman, Executive Director of PFR, was making a swing through the Northwest while holding regional gatherings.  He met with a group from the Presbytery of Olympia, on October 28th.  Tacoma was not one of his scheduled stops.  We had just over an hour to hear what he had to say and to ask him a few questions.  Here is a summary of the information he gave us (written and verbally).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;PFR has a four step process AND a vision for a restructuring of the PCUSA.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Step One:  “preparing hearts and minds to participate in what God is doing in and through us” – Step one is designed to return Christ’s followers to the spiritual disciplines of prayer, reading scripture, worship and fellowship.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Step Two:  “offering faithful witness to God’s transforming power and love in our current context” – PFR is offering resources to be used to educate individuals, congregations and presbyteries on sexual and biblical morals/theology/ethics.  They are also providing information on a range of topics (along with talking points) to help frame a biblical witness to presbyteries and congregations.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Step Three:  “reshaping the PC(USA) to provide a way for evangelicals to do ministry with integrity” – Concerning the Presbyterian Church and the 218th General Assembly, PFR’s says, “It is clear that the PC(USA)’s confession of the Lordship of Jesus Christ and commitment to our Reformed confessions has weakened to the point that we can no longer assume a common framework of conversation.”  Their document says that PFR is working on how to move forward.  (PFR has come up with their way forward and I will discuss it in just a moment.)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Step Four:  “moving beyond impasse and political posturing into God’s mission &amp; future” – PFR is calling individuals to “reorder” their lives for the sake of the gospel.  PFR is calling congregations to open their arms to welcome all people so that they can experience the transforming power of God’s love:  “relationships healed, addictions cured, sins forgiven and hope restored.”  PFR is calling upon seminaries to change their vision and purposes.  PFR is calling upon presbyteries to change their focus and begin fulfilling the Great Commission.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It would be nice if these four steps were to become a part of the fabric of the PCUSA, it’s members, congregations, presbyteries, synods and General Assembly.  These four steps were framed BEFORE PFR came up with their “plan.”  So… let’s take a look at the PFR plan forward.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;THE SEVENTHEENTH SYNOD MODEL&lt;br /&gt;The &lt;a href="http://www.pcusa.org/links/"&gt;PCUSA&lt;/a&gt; has around 11,000 congregations that are organized into 173 presbyteries (“district governing bodies”) and 16 synods (“regional governing bodies”).  Evergreen Presbyterian Church is a part of the Presbytery of Olympia—it stretches from the Cascade Mountains to the Pacific Ocean and from the King County southern boundary to the north edge of Vancouver, Washington (churches in Vancouver are in the same presbytery as churches in Portland since they are so connected to Portland.).  The Presbytery of Olympia is a part of the Synod of Alaska-Northwest.  The Synod of Alaska-Northwest covers Alaska, Washington and the upper “panhandle” of Idaho and is composed of the following presbyteries:  Alaska, Yukon, North Puget Sound, Seattle, Olympia, Central Washington and Inland Northwest.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Let me begin by saying what PFR IS NOT proposing.  PFR is not proposing what has been called the “two synod model.”  The two synod model was first proposed several years ago.  In this model, the PCUSA would be divided into two synods (basically, a progressive/liberal synod and an evangelical/biblically conservative synod.  Every congregation would decide which synod it would be a part of.  The criticism of this model is that it would cause serious harm to congregations as they decided which synod they would belong to.  Ordination battle have been waged in our presbyteries and at the General Assembly levels—not at the local church level.  The two synod model is not advocated by PFR.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;PFR is recommending that the PCUSA should create a new, non-geographical synod.  The new synod would have a different set of ordination standards than the rest of the PCUSA.  This new synod would be an “evangelical” synod.  Churches (and presbyteries) could choose to become a part of this new synod.  The only churches that would have to deal with this issue are the ones that choose to do so.”  This new structure would necessitate some major changes in the PCUSA structure:  a new Book of Order, new ways to amend the denomination’s constitution, two sets of ordination standards, new ways for the denomination to communicate to the world the stances of the denomination, etc.  Many (if not most) of the details of the 17th synod model have yet to be worked out.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Here is the bottom line:  PFR is trying to find a way for evangelical congregations to stay in the PCUSA.  End of story.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Paul Detterman, and others in PFR’s leadership, are holding regional gatherings and introducing the 17th synod model.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Tomorrow I will give my critique of the 17th synod model.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-6531404975902629965?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/6531404975902629965/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=6531404975902629965' title='5 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/6531404975902629965'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/6531404975902629965'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/11/presbyterians-for-renewaltheir-plan.html' title='Presbyterians for Renewal—Their Plan Forward.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SSGkYZZ4svI/AAAAAAAAAao/zu0jsOIWVnk/s72-c/DSC_0229.JPG' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>5</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-8881833334883306663</id><published>2008-11-14T09:47:00.001-08:00</published><updated>2008-11-14T09:54:55.646-08:00</updated><title type='text'>New Wineskins Convocation V – Final Thoughs.</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SR26qzi-KdI/AAAAAAAAAaI/U2NEEPJLJH8/s1600-h/DSC_0568.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SR26qzi-KdI/AAAAAAAAAaI/U2NEEPJLJH8/s320/DSC_0568.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5268572383647508946" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SR26qX4jljI/AAAAAAAAAaA/7VSH1bq_18I/s1600-h/DSC_0207.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SR26qX4jljI/AAAAAAAAAaA/7VSH1bq_18I/s320/DSC_0207.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5268572376221849138" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SR26qDyqrdI/AAAAAAAAAZ4/-GMbBLa1008/s1600-h/DSC_0116.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 213px; height: 320px;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SR26qDyqrdI/AAAAAAAAAZ4/-GMbBLa1008/s320/DSC_0116.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5268572370828438994" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SR26pkg5q5I/AAAAAAAAAZw/ExYVvhFlaqA/s1600-h/DSC_0282.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SR26pkg5q5I/AAAAAAAAAZw/ExYVvhFlaqA/s320/DSC_0282.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5268572362432424850" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A few more dahlia pics before getting to the blog.  These dahlias are from my 2008 garden.  The dahlias in the order they appear are: Horse Feathers, Hot Number, Hy Debut and  Insipic.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The New Wineskins Association of Churches Convocation V is in the history books and I am back at Evergreen Presbyterian Church getting into the daily pastoral grind.  I have put off writing this “final thoughts” piece until I have had some time to give it the attention it deserves.  So here goes…&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thought #1:  The PCUSA made a HUGE mistake by blowing off the New Wineskins Convocation.  To the best of my knowledge there was not a single PCUSA dignitary at the convocation.  Our General Assembly moderator went to the Presbyterian Coalition meeting.  He was even allowed to address the Coalition assembly.  Hunter Farrell was at the Presbyterian Global Fellowship meeting.  Where were those in leadership of the PCUSA?  Fact:  The majority of churches that are a part of the New Wineskins Association of Churches are faithful churches with the PCUSA!!!!!  These churches do not like the direction that the denomination has been going and they are experiencing a sense of abandonment, betrayal and loss.  So, where is their (our) denomination when these/our churches are hurting?  I can tell you where they weren’t—they weren’t in Cleveland at the New Wineskins Convocation!!  Shame, shame, on the leadership of the PCUSA.  It is almost as though the denomination wants these churches to leave the denomination.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thought #2:  Worship was the central component of the Convocation.  Worship services were held a various times during the day.  The music was inspirational (see my one exception on a previous post).  The pray was humbling.  The preaching was inspirational.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thought #3:  Every component of the Convocation was surrounded with prayer.  A team was praying every moment that the Convocation was in session.  Individuals needing prayer could go to this prayer room to have people pray for them, their church, or what ever the prayer need might be.  Those desiring to pray by themselves could pray in prayer room or out in the prayer garden.  During worship services, people were encouraged to pray while seated, kneeling, laying prostrate before God or any other way that God was leading them.  We had time to pray for those regions in the world where Christians are persecuted.  We prayed for missionaries.  We prayed.  We prayed.  We prayed.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thought #4:  Where were the news outlets of the PCUSA?  Reporters from across the denomination were in Minneapolis for Covenant Network meeting.  (New news article &lt;a href="http://www.pcusa.org/pcnews/2008/08827.htm"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href="http://www.pres-outlook.com/news-and-analysis/1/8115.html"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;)  Why did these “news” outlets choose to skip the New Wineskins Convocation?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thought #5:  The New Wineskins Convocation was not a political meeting.  Yes, the New Wineskins Presbytery of the EPC did hold their official meeting.  However,  I hold fast to my belief that the Convocation was not a political meeting.  The Convocation was about local churches becoming “outward focused” (missional) in their ministries.  There were no speeches about defeating the proposed amendment to the PCUSA constitution to remove G-6.0106b from the Book of Order.  There were no speeches about leaving the PCUSA.  There were no speeches about putting forth amendments to the Book of Order at the next meeting of the General Assembly of the PCUSA.  The Convocation was about reaching the world with the good news of Jesus Christ.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thought #6:  There was a spirit of solidarity that I have only experienced a couple of times in all of my 20+ years of ordained ministry in the PCUSA.  Within the PCUSA and within our presbyteries, there are MANY beliefs about sins, salvation, Jesus, God, morals, the interpretation of scripture, the bodily resurrection of Jesus, the virgin birth, etc.  There is no sense of solidarity within the PCUSA or my presbytery.  The sense of solidarity at the Convocation was overwhelming.  The only other times that I have felt this way are when I gather with a group of “like-minded” pastors in my presbytery.  Over the past few months we have gotten together several times.  The sense of solidarity we experience is rejuvenating and inspiring.  It was tremendously refreshing to experience this sense of solidarity at the New Wineskins Convocation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thought #7:  Next year, I will try to take more leaders from my church to the New Wineskins Convocation VI.  I have tried to keep my church’s leadership at “arms-length” from the garbage that goes on at the national level of the denomination.  The New Wineskins Convocation would be an excellent example of how the church should function locally, nationally and globally.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thought #8:  Get out of your office when writing your sermon!!  For almost two years I have been writing my sermons at my favorite coffee shop.  I arrive at The Oasis just after it opens and work for a couple of hours before heading to the office—it  reminds me that the church needs to get out from behind its walls and be among the people of our community.  One of our speakers confessed that he writes his sermons while at the food court of a local mall.   He seeks to be among people who don’t know Christ when he is writing his sermons so that he is constantly reminded of those who need Jesus in their lives.  It also serves as a reminder to use language that is understandable by everyone—not just church folks.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Well, that’s about it.  Next week I will looking at Presbyterians for Renewal’s plan for how the PCUSA should move forward.  Have a great weekend!&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-8881833334883306663?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/8881833334883306663/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=8881833334883306663' title='4 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8881833334883306663'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8881833334883306663'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/11/new-wineskins-convocation-v-final.html' title='New Wineskins Convocation V – Final Thoughs.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SR26qzi-KdI/AAAAAAAAAaI/U2NEEPJLJH8/s72-c/DSC_0568.JPG' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>4</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-271914377220762841</id><published>2008-11-11T19:57:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2008-11-11T20:07:01.470-08:00</updated><title type='text'>New Wineskins Convocation V – November 11th</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRpWQeUEyvI/AAAAAAAAAZo/usBsjFSvO1Q/s1600-h/DSC_0083.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRpWQeUEyvI/AAAAAAAAAZo/usBsjFSvO1Q/s320/DSC_0083.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5267617555178375922" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRpWP5Uwr4I/AAAAAAAAAZg/OCy6rP3YF6U/s1600-h/DSC_0198.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRpWP5Uwr4I/AAAAAAAAAZg/OCy6rP3YF6U/s320/DSC_0198.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5267617545249140610" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRpWPmI7OoI/AAAAAAAAAZY/Ql3lxqrULuM/s1600-h/DSC_0245.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRpWPmI7OoI/AAAAAAAAAZY/Ql3lxqrULuM/s320/DSC_0245.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5267617540099226242" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRpWO9uThcI/AAAAAAAAAZQ/QHJL-AwKO-0/s1600-h/DSC_0084.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRpWO9uThcI/AAAAAAAAAZQ/QHJL-AwKO-0/s320/DSC_0084.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5267617529250153922" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A few more dahlia pics before getting to the blog.  These dahlias are from my 2008 garden.  The dahlias in the order they appear are: Hamilton Lillian, Helen’s Carl, Hillcrest Fiesta and Hillcrest Liam.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Today was the final day of the New Wineskins Convocation.  Today’s most significant learning time for me was the time in the Church Planting seminar.  The learning did not end when the seminar concluded.  Following the seminar I had an extended conversation with Bill Meyer (Chairman of the Joint Commission of the New Wineskins and the Evangelical Presbyterian Church) on the topic of church planting.  (Note:  Thanks Bill—and I do have his permission to use his name)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The PCUSA (the denomination of which I am a part) has failed miserably in church planting (known as “new church development” in PCUSA lingo).  We fail because we start so few churches.  As dollars at the presbytery level shrink so does the church planting.  Another reason for the failure has to do with the goal of the project.  The goal should never be to “start a church.”  As soon as the church has been “started” the goal has been reached.  Too often, it is at that point where the focus of the new church turns inward—building a building, paying a huge mortgage, etc.  The goal of church planting should be to “reach people for Jesus Christ.”  This outward focus must be a part of the DNA of the new ministry that is being started.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Bill suggested that the church planter needs to forget everything they have learned about “being a church.”  A church mentality says, “We need a youth program.” or “We need to start a Sunday school.”  The small new ministry can not create these programs that can compete with churches that are already doing those things well in your area; besides, it is those who are already “churched” that are looking for these types of programs.  Those who do not know Christ are not looking for a Sunday School or youth group program—they are not even on the person’s radar.  Bill suggests that most energy and effort needs to be focused on looking outward—encouraging people to spend time with those who do not know Christ.  These are the people that the church plant is seeking to reach.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The seminar pointed out that it is important for a church plant to be in a location where the community is growing (this is not to be confused with missions that are established in low income, high crime areas where the needs are so great).  This new ministry must be formed with people who are “outward” focused.  Most American Christians are not outward focused.  One poll asked Christians a question that went something like this:  “Should the church’s primary focus be to those who don’t go to church or to you and your family?”  Eighty nine percent of the people said that the primary focus should be me and my family.  What a tragic answer.  It is no wonder that most Christian churches in the US are declining in size.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is my belief that the PCUSA, the EPC and the New Wineskins Association need to be intentional in starting new churches.  It is almost impossible to “turn around” a declining church.  The resources and effort should be placed in starting new churches.  The best way to form these new ministries is to have larger churches “birth” daughter churches.  This process in involves a significant core group going to start the new ministry.  They bring with them financial resources and enthusiasm.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Church planting MUST become a priority!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Check back tomorrow for my final thoughts on the Convocation.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-271914377220762841?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/271914377220762841/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=271914377220762841' title='4 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/271914377220762841'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/271914377220762841'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/11/new-wineskins-convocation-v-november_11.html' title='New Wineskins Convocation V – November 11th'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRpWQeUEyvI/AAAAAAAAAZo/usBsjFSvO1Q/s72-c/DSC_0083.JPG' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>4</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-8596088882603095347</id><published>2008-11-10T20:00:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2008-11-10T20:09:14.091-08:00</updated><title type='text'>New Wineskins Convocation V – November 10th.</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRkFKO8aS5I/AAAAAAAAAZI/pFFpIk0BKXs/s1600-h/DSC_0336.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRkFKO8aS5I/AAAAAAAAAZI/pFFpIk0BKXs/s320/DSC_0336.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5267246912554814354" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRkFJyD2cQI/AAAAAAAAAZA/MogfpbGZa1c/s1600-h/DSC_0072.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRkFJyD2cQI/AAAAAAAAAZA/MogfpbGZa1c/s320/DSC_0072.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5267246904801390850" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRkFJdqB5QI/AAAAAAAAAY4/w9m-pUlMXc4/s1600-h/DSC_0218.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRkFJdqB5QI/AAAAAAAAAY4/w9m-pUlMXc4/s320/DSC_0218.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5267246899324380418" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRkFJOUab0I/AAAAAAAAAYw/8aAR-x1blZY/s1600-h/DSC_0266.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRkFJOUab0I/AAAAAAAAAYw/8aAR-x1blZY/s320/DSC_0266.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5267246895207182146" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A few more dahlia pics before getting to the blog.  These dahlias are from my 2008 garden.  The dahlias in the order they appear are: Gerrie Scott, Ginger Willo, Glenn Valley Cathy and Gloriosa.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Today was the second day of the New Wineskins Convocation V.  We heard major presentations by:&lt;br /&gt;• Rev. Marcelo Robles, Pastor, La Mision, Buenos Aires, Agentina.&lt;br /&gt;• Rev. Dr. Eli Morris, Associate Pastor of Urban Ministries, Hope Presbyterian Church, Cordova, TN.&lt;br /&gt;• Caroline Kurtz, Associate Director, Presbyterian Frontier Fellowship.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In addition to these presentations there were workshops on the Westminster Confession, Church Property Issues and Developing Missional Leadership in the Local Church.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Key things that I learned about the missional church are:&lt;br /&gt;1. The missional church is a suffering church—it lifts high the cross of Christ and suffers for it, it becomes a suffering church as soon as it focuses on serving Christ, the missional church leaves the place of safety and security and follows where Christ leads.&lt;br /&gt;2. The missional church is a disciple making church—it listens to the Word, accepts it, puts it into practice, is transformed by the Word and then the new disciples share their faith with other people.&lt;br /&gt;3. The missional church is a missional “fellowship” – it reverses the world’s values, empowers the weak and views the poor as its neighbors.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Eli challenged us with three main concepts:&lt;br /&gt;1. The church should be a launching pad and not a landing strip—the landing strip model is where the person goes through the week and ends up just making it to the church on Sunday—the landing strip.  In the launching pad model a person comes to worship and is launched into the week by the Holy Spirit.  &lt;br /&gt;2. The church should be the first place the mayor calls when he needs help—this can only happen when the church is so involved in the community that the community’s leaders know the church.&lt;br /&gt;3. If your church was to close today, would the community miss the church and why?  I was introduced to this challenge at the Purpose Driven Presbyterians meeting this year.  It is still just as challenging!!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;During the lunch break (it wasn’t really a break) we gathered in regional groups.  I was in the group that represented Washington, Oregon and California.  The first thing that I noticed was the discontent with the PCUSA that was rampant in the room.  Several of the church had recently left the PCUSA and joined the New Wineskins Presbytery of the EPC.  I was shocked to learn the Sunset Presbyterian Church, Portland, Oregon, was just released by their presbytery last week!!  Sunset is a very large, evangelical church in Portland.  A smaller church in their presbytery was also released at the same time.  I became aware of another shocking development on the west coast but will refrain from blogging about it until I get additional details and make sure that that the info is public information.  There was not a single church represented in that room that I would consider firmly with the PCUSA!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;My biggest criticism of the Convocation has to do with worship.  It is quite obvious that the people planning worship are from very liturgical churches.  There have been HUGE choirs, small ensemble groups, a harp, and of course, the pipe organ.  The couple of times they “dabbled” in contemporary worship were pathetic.  Our little church of 100 people has a worship team that truly leads the congregation in worship and could have done a better job.  Why they have not tried to present the best of liturgical worship and the best of contemporary worship is beyond me.  Their half-hearted attempt at contemporary worship is embarrassing.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;All-in-all, day two at the convocation was very good.  I look forward to day three.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-8596088882603095347?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/8596088882603095347/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=8596088882603095347' title='6 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8596088882603095347'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8596088882603095347'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/11/new-wineskins-convocation-v-november_10.html' title='New Wineskins Convocation V – November 10th.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRkFKO8aS5I/AAAAAAAAAZI/pFFpIk0BKXs/s72-c/DSC_0336.JPG' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>6</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-2004798178250638714</id><published>2008-11-09T19:49:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2008-11-09T19:59:09.535-08:00</updated><title type='text'>New Wineskins Convocation V – November 9th</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRewnWDKT8I/AAAAAAAAAYo/g484XExFGrI/s1600-h/DSC_0166.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRewnWDKT8I/AAAAAAAAAYo/g484XExFGrI/s320/DSC_0166.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5266872479213309890" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRewmjus4sI/AAAAAAAAAYg/jM9EmvFet5E/s1600-h/DSC_0128.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRewmjus4sI/AAAAAAAAAYg/jM9EmvFet5E/s320/DSC_0128.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5266872465705722562" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRewmKk8iHI/AAAAAAAAAYY/j-c_AvdBhNw/s1600-h/DSC_0385.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRewmKk8iHI/AAAAAAAAAYY/j-c_AvdBhNw/s320/DSC_0385.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5266872458953918578" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRewlm8sZfI/AAAAAAAAAYQ/M4Jm-jaa614/s1600-h/DSC_0138.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRewlm8sZfI/AAAAAAAAAYQ/M4Jm-jaa614/s320/DSC_0138.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5266872449389848050" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A few more dahlia pics before getting to the blog.  These are all dahlias that I grew this past summer.  The dahlias in the order they appear are:  Fuzzy Wuzzy, Formby Gold, Fleurel and Fire Mountain.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The New Wineskins Convocation V began tonight just outside of Cleveland, Ohio.  Worship and prayer are going to be major components of the convocation.  Worship included time to pray for those countries and Christians where oppression is a way of life.  My small prayer group was able to pray for my daughter’s ministry to Muslim women in an “undisclosed” Muslim country.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Dean Weaver, one of the founders of New Wineskins, gave a presentation that was designed to bring “newcomers” up to speed on the history of New Wineskins and to set the stage for the next two days.  He summed things up by saying, “It’s not about leaving; it’s not about staying; it’s about realigning to reach the world for Christ.”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The New Wineskins Association of Church is composed of 176 congregations.  Some of the congregations are in the PCUSA.  Some of the congregations are in the Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC).  And, it sounds like there are some congregations that are not a part of the two mentioned denominations.  The realignment transcends denominational ties.  The realignment is about congregations joining with other congregation that hold the same essential tenants (that are actually spelled out—how revolutionary!) and ethical imparities (also spelled out) in ministry and mission.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;One may ask, “Why is there a need for realignment?”  All one has to do is attend one of these gathering and the answer to that question become apparent.  These is something powerful about joining with like minded followers of Christ, worshipping together, praying together, working together, ministering together and holding one another accountable.  It is unlike any other Presbyterian gathering that I have been a part of.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Another question you may be asking is, ‘Why is Pastor Lance at the New Wineskins Convocation?”  First, the congregation I serve is not a member of the New Wineskins Association of Churches.  Evergreen Presbyterian Church would have no problem with the essential tenants or ethical imperatives of New Wineskins.  Joining New Wineskins has not been a priority over the past couple of years—we have had more pressing issues to deal with.  Second, Evergreen Presbyterian Church did not pay for me to attend this convocation—I am paying for it myself.  I was going to take “vacation” for this trip but the session wanted me to use some of my study leave.  Third, I do not know how long I will be in the PCUSA.  Actions of the 218th General Assembly have serious affected my future with this denomination.  One possible option for me is to stay in the PCUSA but to align with a group (such as New Wineskins) for ministry and mission.  I want to see how pastors and congregations live this option out.  Another possible option would be to stay within the PCUSA “if” the Presbyterians for Renewal can get their new “synod” model passed.  I will talk about this in a future post.  Another option for me is to leave the PCUSA and join the New Wineskins Presbytery of the EPC.  I want to see how pastors and churches have made this transition.  Fourth, I want to see how the area networks (the main backbone of New Wineskins) actually work. I want to see what the leadership of New Wineskins has to say about their future dreams and plans.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Check back each day for my impressions of the New Wineskins Association of Churches Convocation V.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-2004798178250638714?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/2004798178250638714/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=2004798178250638714' title='3 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/2004798178250638714'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/2004798178250638714'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/11/new-wineskins-convocation-v-november.html' title='New Wineskins Convocation V – November 9th'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRewnWDKT8I/AAAAAAAAAYo/g484XExFGrI/s72-c/DSC_0166.JPG' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>3</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-3235238431106846111</id><published>2008-11-09T12:10:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2008-11-09T12:16:40.155-08:00</updated><title type='text'>Five "sola" statement final post</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRdFBNEdhRI/AAAAAAAAAYI/fDloi7edPvs/s1600-h/DSC_0615.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRdFBNEdhRI/AAAAAAAAAYI/fDloi7edPvs/s320/DSC_0615.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5266754176223642898" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRdFAuvqqpI/AAAAAAAAAYA/AY3Y1jxxXfw/s1600-h/DSC_0183.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRdFAuvqqpI/AAAAAAAAAYA/AY3Y1jxxXfw/s320/DSC_0183.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5266754168083360402" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRdFAIT-JBI/AAAAAAAAAX4/whIbosd4Nr4/s1600-h/DSC_0176.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRdFAIT-JBI/AAAAAAAAAX4/whIbosd4Nr4/s320/DSC_0176.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5266754157766648850" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRdE_iBWoXI/AAAAAAAAAXw/-9_CDgyAWfQ/s1600-h/DSC_0123.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRdE_iBWoXI/AAAAAAAAAXw/-9_CDgyAWfQ/s320/DSC_0123.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5266754147488014706" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A few more dahlia pics before getting to the blog.  The dahlias in the order they appear are:  Fern Ridge Magi, Fascination, Fairway Pilot, and Devon Blaze.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Five statements that have shaped the church came out of the Reformation.  These statements have been referred to as “the five solas.”  These five statements sum up the major issues of the Protestant Reformation.  The five statements are:&lt;br /&gt;• Sola scriptura&lt;br /&gt;• Sola fide&lt;br /&gt;• Sola gratia&lt;br /&gt;• Solus Christus&lt;br /&gt;• Soli Deo gloria&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is my belief that many (if not all) of the former “mainline” denominations are at the beginning stages of a new reformation.  The five “sola” statements are central to those reformations.  Today, we will continue our examination of these “sola” statements.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Soli Deo gloia is the Latin phrase for “Glory to God alone.”  All of life (for the follower of Christ) is to be lived for God’s glory.  It would seem as though this would not be an issue within the Presbyterian Church.  Well, think again.  The Possibilities Task Force of our Presbytery could not even agree on the nature of God.  They can’t even agree on God’s nature!!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The PCUSA needs a Reformation for today!  We must return to the five “sola” statements of the first Reformation if we are to have a future together.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-3235238431106846111?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/3235238431106846111/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=3235238431106846111' title='1 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/3235238431106846111'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/3235238431106846111'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/11/five-sola-statement-final-post.html' title='Five &quot;sola&quot; statement final post'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRdFBNEdhRI/AAAAAAAAAYI/fDloi7edPvs/s72-c/DSC_0615.JPG' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>1</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-3546026228683223004</id><published>2008-11-05T08:28:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2008-11-05T08:33:49.871-08:00</updated><title type='text'>"Sola" statements -- continued.</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRHKj1EaFzI/AAAAAAAAAXo/n0M_WIlGoSw/s1600-h/DSC_0113.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRHKj1EaFzI/AAAAAAAAAXo/n0M_WIlGoSw/s320/DSC_0113.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5265212156262618930" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRHKjkUY7dI/AAAAAAAAAXg/PU6p0pXEFU0/s1600-h/DSC_0014.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRHKjkUY7dI/AAAAAAAAAXg/PU6p0pXEFU0/s320/DSC_0014.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5265212151766248914" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRHKi89WxBI/AAAAAAAAAXY/QaA57o38Ptg/s1600-h/DSC_0251.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRHKi89WxBI/AAAAAAAAAXY/QaA57o38Ptg/s320/DSC_0251.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5265212141200655378" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRHKiijZ45I/AAAAAAAAAXQ/rYF3V1tRMoQ/s1600-h/DSC_0060.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRHKiijZ45I/AAAAAAAAAXQ/rYF3V1tRMoQ/s320/DSC_0060.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5265212134112486290" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A few more dahlia pics before getting to the blog.  The dahlias in the order they appear are:  Davenport Honey, Dark Prince, Danun Cupid and Cream Kerkrade.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Five statements that have shaped the church came out of the Reformation.  These statements have been referred to as “the five solas.”  These five statements sum up the major issues of the Protestant Reformation.  The five statements are:&lt;br /&gt;• Sola scriptura&lt;br /&gt;• Sola fide&lt;br /&gt;• Sola gratia&lt;br /&gt;• Solus Christus&lt;br /&gt;• Soli Deo gloria&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is my belief that many (if not all) of the former “mainline” denominations are at the beginning stages of a new reformation.  The five “sola” statements are central to those reformations.  Today, we will continue our examination of these “sola” statements.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sola gratia means “by grace alone” – salvation by God’s grace.  There is nothing that we can do to merit God’s grace.  This statement is rooted in the biblical doctrine that says that humans have a sinful nature.  Sin permeates each and every human.  Period.  End of story.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Too many pastors, churches and Christians no long believe that humans have a sinful nature.  You many ask, “What is the big deal about believing that humans are by nature good?”  If humans are by nature good, then it would be possible to meet God’s righteousness mandate on our own—without God.  That moves us away from the doctrine of sola gratia.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Many have said that the PCUSA has reached the “tipping” point.  The PCUSA’s view of scripture is one thing that has brought us to the tipping point.  The time has come to move back to sola gratia.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The move to solus Christus will demonstrate how far the church has moved since the Reformation.  But here is the problem, the words may remain the same, but the definitions have been changed.  Let me take a few paragraphs to explain.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What does a person mean when they use the name “Jesus?”  People say they “believe in Jesus” – but which Jesus is it?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Church Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) “believes” in Jesus.  When the Mormon missionaries come to your front door they will talk about their belief in Jesus.  They will try to show that they are a part of mainstream Christianity.  Are they?  The answer is “NO!”  The LDS church teaches that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers.  Their father, God, was once a person just like you and me.  Through his faith and good works he was able to become a God after his death and was given a planet (earth) of which he was to be the God and was to populate with his spirit children.  The LDS church believes that God, literally, had sex with Mary.  The LDS church ‘believes” in Jesus—it is just a different Jesus.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Muslim faith believes in Jesus.  The Muslim faith teaches that Jesus was a great prophet.  The Bible is one of the “holy books” in their faith.  And yet, they do not believe that Jesus is God, rose from the dead, died for our sins, and provides the only way for us to be in relationship with God.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Jehovah’s Witness church believes in Jesus—but not the Jesus of the Bible.  The Baha’i Faith believes in Jesus—but not the Jesus of the Bible.  The list could go on, and on, and on.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Now, let’s look closer at the PCUSA.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What does a person mean when they say, “I believe in Jesus?”  Do they believe in the virgin birth?  The bodily resurrection?  The miracles?  Do they believe that Jesus is the only way to God?  Do they believe that we need to be in relationship with Jesus?  Do they believe that apart from Jesus a person will “go to hell?”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The number of pastors who have an unbiblical definition of Jesus is astonishing.  When a church calls a person to fill a pastoral opening they may be getting a person who has drastically departed from an orthodox view of Jesus—and the church may not know it!  It is too bad that we have to dig deep to find out what “definitions” are used for church/Christian terms.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The doctrine of solus Christus is the foundation of the church.  Solus Christus means “by Christ alone.”  Salvation by Jesus Christ alone—what a concept!!  There are pastors in my presbytery that do not believe that salvation is only found in Jesus Christ.  There are churches in my presbytery that believe that people can get to God/heaven/eternal life by means other than Jesus Christ.  These erroneous views spring from incorrect views about the person of Jesus and the Bible.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Many have said that the PCUSA has reached the “tipping” point.  The PCUSA’s view of scripture is one thing that has brought us to the tipping point.  The time has come to move back to solus Christus.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-3546026228683223004?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/3546026228683223004/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=3546026228683223004' title='2 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/3546026228683223004'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/3546026228683223004'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/11/sola-statements-continued.html' title='&quot;Sola&quot; statements -- continued.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRHKj1EaFzI/AAAAAAAAAXo/n0M_WIlGoSw/s72-c/DSC_0113.JPG' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>2</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-4755432553223052377</id><published>2008-11-04T09:06:00.000-08:00</published><updated>2008-11-04T09:18:26.311-08:00</updated><title type='text'>Sola series--part 1</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRCB-wOnvVI/AAAAAAAAAXI/cGP5MTI4TEQ/s1600-h/DSC_0115.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRCB-wOnvVI/AAAAAAAAAXI/cGP5MTI4TEQ/s320/DSC_0115.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5264850879494208850" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRCB-KBGViI/AAAAAAAAAXA/7JWznK1g0uA/s1600-h/DSC_0008.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRCB-KBGViI/AAAAAAAAAXA/7JWznK1g0uA/s320/DSC_0008.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5264850869236946466" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRCB9_mGJxI/AAAAAAAAAW4/9cWhUo_kT0U/s1600-h/DSC_0106.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRCB9_mGJxI/AAAAAAAAAW4/9cWhUo_kT0U/s320/DSC_0106.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5264850866439333650" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRCB9VBPZ5I/AAAAAAAAAWw/AYXJnV19xY8/s1600-h/DSC_0143.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 320px; height: 213px;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRCB9VBPZ5I/AAAAAAAAAWw/AYXJnV19xY8/s320/DSC_0143.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5264850855010461586" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A few more dahlia pics before getting to the blog.  The dahlias in the order they appear are:  Comet, Chilson's Pride, Cheyenne and CG Highlight.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Five statements that have shaped the church came out of the Reformation.  These statements have been referred to as “the five solas.”  These five statements sum up the major issues of the Protestant Reformation.  The five statements are:&lt;br /&gt;• Sola scriptura&lt;br /&gt;• Sola fide&lt;br /&gt;• Solo gratia&lt;br /&gt;• Solus Christus&lt;br /&gt;• Soli Deo gloria&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is my belief that many (if not all) of the former “mainline” denominations are at the beginning stages of a new reformation.  The five “sola” statements are central to those reformations.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sola scriptura means “by scripture alone.”  Reformers believed that scripture alone is where God reveals everything people need to know in regards to faith, truth, morals and living.  Getting the Bible translated into the common language of the people became very important.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Roman Catholic Church (at the time of the Reformation) believed that scripture alone was not sufficient in regards to faith, truth, morals and living.  The Roman church felt that church tradition, Papal authority and the biblical interpretations of bishops and priests were to be added to scripture when determining faith, truth, etc.  The Roman church actively discouraged people from reading scripture—the church thought that it could be dangerous (The Index of Forbidden Books of Pope Pius IV in 1559).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) has moved away from sola scriptura.  The 218th General Assembly is an excellent example of this move away from scripture.  The Reformers would never have imagined a denomination that openly encouraged celebrating the holy days and festivals of the Muslim faith (or any other religion, for that matter).  The Reformers would never have imagined how the denomination openly ignores scripture and what it says about sex outside of marriage (heterosexual and homosexual).  The PCUSA seems to believe:  scripture + justice issues +culture=&gt; what we need to know in regards to faith, truth, morals and living.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Many have said that the PCUSA has reached the “tipping” point.  The PCUSA’s view of scripture is one thing that has brought us to the tipping point.  The time has come to move back to sola scriptura.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Sola fide means “by faith alone.”   We need to look at the need for “justification” as the starting point for learning about sola fide.  Justification is God’s act of declaring a sinner holy.  One might ask, “Is there a need for justification?”  Human sin is universal.  Period.  End of discussion.  Then there is the truth that God’s judgment is inescapable.  Period.  End of discussion.  Each human is in need of God’s justification!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Roman church believed:  faith+works=&gt;justification.  An individual needed to have faith in the Jesus of the Bible—his life, death and resurrection.  This faith was not “enough” for justification to occur.  Upon confessing one’s sins to a priest or bishop, a person would be given certain “things” to do—for example, saying some “Hail Marys,” lighting candles, etc.  Failure to complete the appointed actions would mean that God would not forgive their sin.  The Protestant church believed:  faith=&gt;justification and works.  God gives us the ability to have faith in Jesus Christ.  The Holy Spirit leads us to Jesus Christ.  Our faith in Jesus Christ is all that is need for God’s justification.  Our works flow out of the new life we have in Jesus Christ.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Today’s definition of “faith” is very different than the definition that was used in biblical and Reformation times.  Back then, faith was not “subject” centered—it was “object” centered (J.I. Packer).  “Subject” centered means that the individual is the focus of faith.  “Object” centered means that Jesus Christ in the focus of our faith.  To have faith in Jesus Christ is to have a relationship with Jesus Christ that leads and directs our life.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;On the surface, it would be easy to say that most all Presbyterians believe in sola fide.  Unfortunately, that would be incorrect.  I believe (and it is my contention that Presbyterian Panel surveys bear this out) that most “people in the pews” and elders believe in sola fide (as defined in scripture and the Reformation).  There are many pastors (and church leaders) who believe that everyone will be in heaven—after all, God is love.  There are those who believe that all we have to do is “love” people.  There are those who do not believe in the Jesus of the Bible:  Son of God, born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, did miracles during his earthly ministry, died on the cross for our sins, bodily rose from the dead—conquering death,  showed himself to his followers following the resurrection, and then ascended into heaven.  Too many in the PCUSA DO NOT have faith in this Jesus.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Many have said that the PCUSA has reached the “tipping” point.  The PCUSA’s view of faith is one thing that has brought us to the tipping point.  The time has come to move back to sola fide.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-4755432553223052377?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/4755432553223052377/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=4755432553223052377' title='1 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/4755432553223052377'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/4755432553223052377'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/11/sola-series-part-1.html' title='Sola series--part 1'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SRCB-wOnvVI/AAAAAAAAAXI/cGP5MTI4TEQ/s72-c/DSC_0115.JPG' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>1</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-6967701615638280468</id><published>2008-10-13T15:36:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-10-14T07:58:47.592-07:00</updated><title type='text'>The PCUSA ordination battles feel like a couple going through a divorce.</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SPPPF47bc8I/AAAAAAAAAWQ/WKgvaIAVPoM/s1600-h/DSC_0412.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SPPPF47bc8I/AAAAAAAAAWQ/WKgvaIAVPoM/s320/DSC_0412.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5256772890159444930" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SPPPF1ErfVI/AAAAAAAAAWY/T7-Ep-z_fa0/s1600-h/DSC_0439.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SPPPF1ErfVI/AAAAAAAAAWY/T7-Ep-z_fa0/s320/DSC_0439.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5256772889124502866" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SPPPG_UAZPI/AAAAAAAAAWg/xkXXXRVgQ3c/s1600-h/DSC_0165.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SPPPG_UAZPI/AAAAAAAAAWg/xkXXXRVgQ3c/s320/DSC_0165.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5256772909053011186" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SPPPHGwlMBI/AAAAAAAAAWo/JYWJdo744a8/s1600-h/DSC_0255.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SPPPHGwlMBI/AAAAAAAAAWo/JYWJdo744a8/s320/DSC_0255.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5256772911051911186" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;First, a dahlia update before the post.  The dahlias in the order they appear:  Bristol Stripe, Cafe au Lait, Calamity Shane and Camano Sitka.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Now... on to the post.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Over they years I have known many couples that have had marriage problems.  There were many causes of these marriage problems.  Money, or lack of money, can cause marriage problems.  There were those marriages where one person was a Christian and went to church and the spouse was not a Christian and did not go to church.  There was the husband who "forgot" he was married the Monday after the honeymoon and went out drinking with the "guys" after work for hours--totally forgetting that he was married and had a wife waiting for him at home (that marriage lasted less than a year).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There were those marriages that had problems due to marital unfaithfulness.  There was the pastor that fell in love with the church pianist and kicked his wife out of the house.  There was the wife having an affair and flaunting it in her husband's face (she told him that she liked having sex with the other guy and she was going to keep on doing it, when ever, and where ever she could).  There was the man who had had dozens and dozens of affairs.  There was the man who wanted a divorce (because of an affair) but didn't want his name to appear in the newspaper as the one filing for divorce so he left a woman's panties in the laundry.  The list could go on and on.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Some of the marriages mentioned above were able to survive the challenges--many were not.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Troubled marriages can survive when the couple is "heading in the same direction" -- that is, they hold the same goals and beliefs--they are able to agree on key items of their beliefs.  Compromise is a prerequisite.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The PCUSA's ordination wars feel like a marriage that is failing.  The "marriage" can be saved if both sides are willing to compromise.  But, is compromise possible?  One side believes that there is nothing wrong with sex outside the bounds of a marriage of one man and one woman.  These folks believe that it is a "justice" issue and thus cannot compromise.  The other side believes that such sexual practice goes against God's clear teaching in scripture and is sin and thus cannot compromise.  Both sides firmly hold their beliefs.  There can be no compromise from these two positions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The marriage is doomed to fail!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;This past General Assembly reminds me of the couple where the man left the panties in the laundry to try and force the woman to file for divorce.  Our Book of Order still contains the prohibition of sexual activity outside of the bounds of marriage between one man and one woman for ordained persons.  Now enters the new strategy--change the rules by bypassing the Book of Order-- adopt a new "Authoritative Interpretation."  To adopt a new Authoritative Interpretation" is like telling the other side--"feel free to leave if you want."  They tried (and succeeded?)changing the "rules" without having to get a majority of Presbyteries to agree.  Those putting the Authoritative Interpretation forward had to know what the effect would be.  They aren't stupid!!  They want the Evangelicals to leave the PCUSA so that they can do what they want.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Can the PCUSA be saved?  Some say "yes."  Some say "no."  Only time will tell.  All I know is that marriages fail when the partners hold differing opinions about key issues.  Do those in the PCUSA have enough "agreement" on key points that they can stay together as one denomination.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Presbytery of Olympia's General Council has put together a "Possibilities Task Force" to see how, or if, we have a way to go forward into the future together.  This group is made up of people from all across the theological spectrum.  The group tried to find common ground at one of its meetings.  They couldn't agree on anything!!  Not even the nature of God!  I believe that this task force mirrors the PCUSA.  We do not have a bright future if we cannot even agree on the nature of God.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Are we headed for "divorce?"&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-6967701615638280468?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/6967701615638280468/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=6967701615638280468' title='4 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/6967701615638280468'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/6967701615638280468'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/10/pcusa-ordination-battles-feel-like.html' title='The PCUSA ordination battles feel like a couple going through a divorce.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SPPPF47bc8I/AAAAAAAAAWQ/WKgvaIAVPoM/s72-c/DSC_0412.JPG' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>4</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-4734818604489254026</id><published>2008-10-13T15:11:00.001-07:00</published><updated>2008-10-13T15:13:43.105-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Sahara Desert sand storm.</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SPPHoid6ujI/AAAAAAAAAWI/7aX0G609E1M/s1600-h/desert+sand+storm.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SPPHoid6ujI/AAAAAAAAAWI/7aX0G609E1M/s320/desert+sand+storm.jpg" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5256764689332484658" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As I have mentioned, our daughter is serving with a mission team in the Sahara Desert.  Here is a photo of the sand storm that hit their region last week.  Her Muslim friends are use to having sand storms--but nothing like this!!&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-4734818604489254026?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/4734818604489254026/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=4734818604489254026' title='3 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/4734818604489254026'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/4734818604489254026'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/10/sahara-desert-sand-storm.html' title='Sahara Desert sand storm.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SPPHoid6ujI/AAAAAAAAAWI/7aX0G609E1M/s72-c/desert+sand+storm.jpg' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>3</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-1666906687021102834</id><published>2008-10-13T15:06:00.001-07:00</published><updated>2008-10-13T15:08:48.533-07:00</updated><title type='text'>sorry about not posting...</title><content type='html'>Pastoral duties have kept me swamped (funeral, wedding, illness in the congregation, etc.)  Will start posting again tomorrow.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Lance&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-1666906687021102834?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/1666906687021102834/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=1666906687021102834' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/1666906687021102834'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/1666906687021102834'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/10/sorry-about-not-posting.html' title='sorry about not posting...'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-8275161470584945965</id><published>2008-10-02T14:45:00.001-07:00</published><updated>2008-10-02T15:10:31.423-07:00</updated><title type='text'>"Jubilee" sources...</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SOVF279MAtI/AAAAAAAAAVo/yHJdr1nWSBg/s1600-h/DSC_0502.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SOVF279MAtI/AAAAAAAAAVo/yHJdr1nWSBg/s320/DSC_0502.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5252681350507135698" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SOVF27SEKOI/AAAAAAAAAVw/-w8pFy2bP8U/s1600-h/DSC_0014.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SOVF27SEKOI/AAAAAAAAAVw/-w8pFy2bP8U/s320/DSC_0014.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5252681350326266082" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SOVF3drv-iI/AAAAAAAAAV4/IDhLhY3Scyc/s1600-h/DSC_0032.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SOVF3drv-iI/AAAAAAAAAV4/IDhLhY3Scyc/s320/DSC_0032.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5252681359560800802" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SOVF3rlqVwI/AAAAAAAAAWA/cR2QO2tsjJQ/s1600-h/DSC_0205.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SOVF3rlqVwI/AAAAAAAAAWA/cR2QO2tsjJQ/s320/DSC_0205.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5252681363293361922" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I tried to publish a color-coded version of the "Jubilee" document.  Will keep trying...&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-8275161470584945965?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/8275161470584945965/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=8275161470584945965' title='1 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8275161470584945965'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8275161470584945965'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/10/jubilee-sources_02.html' title='&quot;Jubilee&quot; sources...'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SOVF279MAtI/AAAAAAAAAVo/yHJdr1nWSBg/s72-c/DSC_0502.JPG' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>1</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-890952528113774186</id><published>2008-09-29T09:56:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-09-29T10:01:33.755-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Jubilee!</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SOEJmvvYMrI/AAAAAAAAAVI/0LpZUPZToLo/s1600-h/DSC_0464.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SOEJmvvYMrI/AAAAAAAAAVI/0LpZUPZToLo/s320/DSC_0464.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5251489201745572530" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SOEJmmA_vWI/AAAAAAAAAVQ/5Vcpb8IyLTk/s1600-h/DSC_0486.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SOEJmmA_vWI/AAAAAAAAAVQ/5Vcpb8IyLTk/s320/DSC_0486.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5251489199135112546" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SOEJm8FoTkI/AAAAAAAAAVY/j-VPOy3u9cI/s1600-h/DSC_0350.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SOEJm8FoTkI/AAAAAAAAAVY/j-VPOy3u9cI/s320/DSC_0350.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5251489205060128322" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SOEJnR8e5zI/AAAAAAAAAVg/8uTDilS_xkM/s1600-h/DSC_0198.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SOEJnR8e5zI/AAAAAAAAAVg/8uTDilS_xkM/s320/DSC_0198.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5251489210927343410" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A few more dahlia pics before getting to the blog…&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Previously, I posted a copy of “Discerning God’s Leading Together:  A Process of Working with Congregations Considering Withdrawal from the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.).  A session of a church within our Presbytery has presented an alternative document for our Presbytery to consider for replacing the previously mentioned document and policy.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Before posting the proposed document, it is important to understand the rational behind the proposed change.&lt;br /&gt;1. When our Presbytery approved its current policy no one envisioned what would happen at the 218th General Assembly.  The wholesale trashing of 2000 years of church teaching and tradition regarding sexual activity is unprecedented in church history.  (It is over 3000 years when one considers the Torah and Jewish teachings.)&lt;br /&gt;2. Our Presbytery’s current policy does not foster an atmosphere for open, honest communication.&lt;br /&gt;3. Too many churches and Presbyteries are ending up in the civil courts as congregations seek to leave the PCUSA.&lt;br /&gt;4. The 218th General Assembly passed a directive to work pastorally with congregations that are seeking to leave the denomination.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The new document was patterned after the Beaver-Butler Presbytery process for dealing with congregations that are looking at leaving the PCUSA.  The General Assembly web site lists the Beaver-Butler process as one of the processes that Presbyteries can use. There were changes to the Beaver-Butler process to reflect our Presbytery’s organizational structure and needs.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;God is not glorified when his church ends up in the civil courts.  A congregation leaving the denomination feels a lot like a divorce.  Some divorces are nasty.  Some divorces strive to be fair and just, but they recognize that they can no longer stay together.  The new document strives to honor Christ and be a witness to the unchurched as congregations and Presbyteries deal with the difficult issues facing us today.  The document keeps the Presbytery and congregation out of the civil courts.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The proposed document is called “Discerning God’s Leading together:  The Jubilee Process.”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Here it is…&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;DISCERNING GOD’S LEADING TOGETHER:&lt;br /&gt;THE JUBILEE PROCESS&lt;br /&gt;Presbytery of Olympia&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A Process of Working with Congregations Considering Withdrawal from the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Spiritual discernment is a focused effort to sort out the will of God, distinguishing God’s Spirit from other spirits that may be influencing us, such as the spirit of tradition, legalism, anger, loyalty, self-will or control. Discernment requires intentional prayer, careful study, and deep listening to God and to each other.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hear the words of St. Paul:  “I therefore, the prisoner in the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, making every effort to maintain the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace.  There is one body and one spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in all.”  (Ephesians 4:1-5)  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We, members of the Presbytery of Olympia, will seek to honor Jesus Christ, Scripture, The Book of Confessions, and the Book of Order through respectful process and open dialogue. The premise upon which our process is built is that when we approach discernment together with openness to the leading of the Holy Spirit and through the authority of the Word of God, the appropriate process to follow the will of God will be revealed. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Jubilee Process guides congregations and the Presbytery, working in partnership, toward answering the questions, “Is God leading this particular congregation to disaffiliate from the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)?”  And if so, “how can that be accomplished in a way that honors Christ and strengthens both the congregation and the Presbytery?” &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The ultimate goal of the Presbytery will be to discern whether reconciliation and continued relationship with a particular congregation is God’s will, or whether withdrawal from the PC(USA) is the path that God desires.  If disaffiliation is discerned to be God’s will, then the Presbytery will seek to further discern the appropriate process for separation. The following process outlines the steps we will use as a presbytery and as individual congregations, pastors and Sessions to discern together the will of God for the churches of the Olympia Presbytery. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We will seek to respect both freedom of conscience and the essentials of Reformed Faith and polity as expressed in The Book of Confessions and the “Form of Government”, subject always to Scripture and the movement of the Spirit.  We will work in good faith toward a mutually agreeable solution, but ultimately the decision reached through this process should reflect what would best serve not ourselves, but the cause of Christ. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Finally, we will seek to follow the Commissioner’s Resolution (04-28)—On Urging a Gracious, Pastoral Response to Churches Requesting Dismissal from the PC(USA) as passed by the 218th General Assembly of the PC(USA) on June 27, 2008.  The Resolution condemns secular litigation as “deadly to the cause of Christ, impacting the local church, other parts of the Body of Christ and ecumenical relationships, and our witness to Christ in the world around us.” (#2 of Resolution 04-28).  Therefore the process of the Olympia Presbytery and its congregations will seek to avoid legal action, except as a last resource.  This includes actions against property and assets of the individual churches, as well as against the leadership of the churches. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“Synods and councils are to handle or conclude nothing but that which is ecclesiastical; and are not to intermeddle with civil affairs which concern the commonwealth unless by way of humble petition in cases extraordinary; or by way of advice for satisfaction of conscience, if they be thereunto required by the civil magistrate.”  Westminster Confession of Faith, 6.176&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; The principles of GA Resolution 04-28 are as follows:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Consistency:  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness.”  James 3:17-18&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Olympia Presbytery process will be consistent among the churches.  We seek to bring the same principles of justice to one another, regardless of the differences in theology, property, leadership, and location.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Pastoral Responsibility:  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“He chose David his servant and took him from the sheep pens; from tending the sheep he brought him to be the shepherd of his people Jacob, of Israel his inheritance. And David shepherded them with integrity of heart; with skillful hands he led them.”  Psalm 78:70-72&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“He tends his flock like a shepherd: He gathers the lambs in his arms and carries them close to his heart; he gently leads those that have young.”  Isaiah 40:11&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Woe to the shepherds of Israel who only take care of themselves! Should not shepherds take care of the flock?” Ezekiel 34:2a&lt;br /&gt;  &lt;br /&gt;"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.” John 10:11&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;From the Questions for Ordination of Ministers, Elders and Deacons:  “Will you be a friend among your colleagues in ministry, working with them, subject to the ordering of God’s Word and Spirit?”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Jubilee process will “highlight the presbytery’s pastoral responsibility” (GA Resolution 04-28).  The Olympia Presbytery will seek to make decisions with integrity of heart, gentleness, careful tending of the flock with a sacrificial spirit of friendship, and will be subject to the ordering of God’s Word and Spirit.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Accountability:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful.” 1 Cor. 4:2&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;”For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”  Matthew 7:2&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“Do not repay anyone evil for evil.  Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody.  If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.”  Romans 12:17-18&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“Wherefore the ecclesiastical power of the ministers of the Church is that function whereby they indeed govern the Church of God, but yet so do all things in the Church as the Lord has prescribed in his Word.  When those things are done, the faithful esteem them as done by the Lord himself.”  2nd Helvetic Confession, 5:160-.163&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“For a governing body, accountability rightly dictates fiduciary and connectional concerns, raising general issues of probperty (G-8.0000) and specific issues of schism within a congregation (G-8.0600).  But full accountability also requires preeminent concern with “caring for the flock.”  (GA Resolution 04-28)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Jubilee Process will include steps of accountability of both the Presbytery to itself and its congregations, and also of those congregations to the Presbytery.  We recognize that, above all, we are accountable to the Word of God and to the Lord.  The Process will seek to discern faithful steps to honor the trust given to the Presbytery for the care of the properties of the member churches, acknowledging that the trust given is a sacred responsibility to further God’s kingdom, not to enable the PC(USA) to indiscriminately separate congregations from their church properties and assets.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Gracious Witness:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; “And the word of the LORD came again to Zechariah: "This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'Administer true justice; show mercy and compassion to one another.’”  Zechariah 7:8-9&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt; “But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.”  Titus 3:9&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."  John 13:34-35&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“At all times and in all places the rule is to be observed that everything is to be done for edification, decently and honorably, without oppression and strife.  For the apostle testifies that authority in the Church was given to him by the Lord for building up and not for destroying (II Cor. 10:8)”  2nd Helvetic Confession 5:165&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“The church thus orders its life as an institution with a constitution, government, officers, finances, and administrative rules.  These are instruments of mission, not ends in themselves.”  The Confession of 1967, 9.40&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“It is our belief that Scripture and the Holy Spirit require a gracious witness from us rather than a harsh legalism.”  GA Resolution 04-28&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In all steps in the Jubilee Process, as well as in all decisions made concerning specific issues, the Olympia Presbytery will seek to be a gracious witness to the churches and their flocks, as well as to the communities surrounding the churches.  As discernment progresses, mercy, compassion, edification, love and encouragement will be priorities over rules and regulations.  “Foolish controversies” and “quarrels about the law” will be avoided, as they constitute harsh legalism, not gracious witness.  Above all, we will remember that the Presbyterian Church (USA) and its institutions are instruments of mission, “not ends in themselves.”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Openness and Transparency:&lt;br /&gt;“Listen, for I have worthy things to say; I open my lips to speak what is right. My mouth speaks what is true, for my lips detest wickedness.”  Proverbs 8:6-7&lt;br /&gt;“Better is open rebuke than hidden love.” Proverbs 27:5&lt;br /&gt;“For whatever is hidden is meant to be disclosed, and whatever is concealed is meant to be brought out into the open.” Mark 4:22&lt;br /&gt;"Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much.” Luke 16:10&lt;br /&gt;Too often processes involve closed meetings and secretive discussions and decisions.  An atmosphere of distrust prevails, leading to a lack of open and honest communication.  The Presbytery of Olympia commits to openness and transparency within its own committees and council as well as among the churches.  It is further resolved that it shall be the policy of this Presbytery that no Minister of the Word and Sacrament, Elder or Deacon shall be subjected to any form of discipline under the Book of Order for any speech that is not contrary to the Word of God, whether that speech is given to individual congregations or Sessions or to the whole body of the Presbytery.  Informing groups of people regarding practices and policies of the institutions of the PC(USA) shall not be considered inappropriate nor subject to discipline.  Likewise, informing congregations, Sessions and Presbytery members of options available to congregations who are considering disaffiliation with the PC(USA) and entertaining discussion on such options shall not be abridged nor punished in any way.  “Speech” shall include written and oral communications, as well as participation or membership in any group or association of Christians of the Reformed faith.  Protecting the rights of speech for Ministers of the Word and Sacrament, Elders, and Deacons will lead to a building of trust, and to the ability to join all parties together for the goal of discerning God’s will for the congregations of the Olympia Presbytery.&lt;br /&gt;Lastly, the mission statement of the Presbytery of Olympia states:  “The Presbytery of Olympia exists to serve Christ through supporting and strengthening congregations and clergy and offering its life in worship, service and witness.”  The Jubilee Process will enable the Presbytery to honor this statement as it comes alongside congregations who are discerning God’s direction in their relationships with the PC(USA).  May Christ be honored as we go forward in this journey.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;SECTION ONE – INITIAL DISCERNMENT PROCESS&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Colossians 3:12-14:  Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Presbyterians affirm that discernment for pastors and congregations involves a tri-fold revelation of God’s will.  The Spirit speaks through the pastoral leadership of each church, through the voices of the congregation and its Session, and also through the body of the Presbytery.  We affirm that our highest calling is to the mission of the Kingdom of God, not to the maintenance of any particular institution. We sadly recognize that because of matters of conscience, congregations occasionally may find it necessary to separate from the institution with which they have been affiliated in order to accomplish their mission. These situations require prayer, total commitment to following the will of God, and bearing with one another with “compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience.”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Therefore, in order to distinguish God’s will in the matter of disaffiliation, and to honor Him and each other, the following initial process is adopted:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1. Pastors and Sessions will pray and openly discuss with one another the issues confronting their individual churches.  Where appropriate, they are welcome to hold shared discussions with other Pastors and Sessions for communal discernment.&lt;br /&gt;2. If further discernment is necessary, then after prayer and a majority vote in a called or stated meeting, the Session will invite its PCCT representative to give guidance in a possible resolution and/or on the implications of proceeding further with the process.  The PCCT representative will inform the COM of the ongoing discernment of the Session.&lt;br /&gt;3. If resolution is not accomplished, the Session will invite the COM to form a Presbytery Discernment Team (PDT).  This Team will consist of the PCCT representative, another representative chosen by the COM from its membership, a representative from the Presbytery Council chosen by the Council, and a representative chosen by the Session.  Additionally the Team will be chaired by a person specifically trained in conflict resolution by a Presbytery-approved entity (i.e. a Certified Interim Pastor).  &lt;br /&gt;4. The PDT will initially meet with the Session and the Moderator separately.  While the Moderator is absent from the Session meeting, he/she will appoint a qualified person to moderate the meeting.  The purpose of the initial meetings will be to discern whether the Session and its leadership are unified in their discernment, as well as to give opportunity for the raising of concerns by either.&lt;br /&gt;5. The PDT will report the results of these initial meetings to the Presbytery through the COM and the Council.&lt;br /&gt;6. The PDT will continue to meet with the Session and its Moderator as ongoing discernment progresses.  Possible topics for conversation include the following:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;• the nature of discernment&lt;br /&gt;• rooting the identified issues in Scripture and our Reformed Tradition&lt;br /&gt;• exploration of church polity including implications of the Trust Clause for both the congregation and also the Presbytery and denomination&lt;br /&gt;• exploration of constitutional ways of influencing the polity of the PC(USA)&lt;br /&gt;• options before the congregation&lt;br /&gt;• strategies for listening to any clearly identified factions within the congregation&lt;br /&gt;• reflecting on Scripture together and praying&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;7. The PDT will not determine the outcome of the discussions, but will work to assure that all issues have been adequately addressed before they are brought before the congregation.  In addition the PDT will assure that the Presbytery, through its COM and Council are fully informed as the discussions continue.&lt;br /&gt;8. In the case of lack of resolution of the issues during the time of initial discernment, the Presbytery and the church will enter into negotiations for disaffiliation, using the process outlined below.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;SECTION TWO:  THE JUBILEE PROCESS&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If it becomes necessary to negotiate the church’s separation from the PC(USA), the following steps will be taken.  Throughout the process, both the Presbytery and the church agree that:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;• The Trust Clause will not be used to shackle churches to the institution of the Presbyterian Church (USA) if the congregation has followed the discernment process and truly feels God’s leading to depart.&lt;br /&gt;• It will not be used as a means of taking civil action against a congregation in keeping with 1 Corinthians 6:1-11 over issues of conscience (G-1.0300).&lt;br /&gt;• The Clause is a visible example of the inter-connection between the Presbytery and its congregations, and should be an opportunity to witness unity to the world, not a tool to cause division and disagreement.&lt;br /&gt;• The Trust Clause will not be used by the Presbytery to initiate civil litigation against a congregation faithfully following the Initial Discernment and/or Jubilee Processes.&lt;br /&gt;• The Presbytery recognizes that “the church” is not buildings nor assets, but is the body of believers—the people of each congregation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1. When a congregation’s Session and Pastors, with the participation of the PDT,  have determined that all issues have been addressed, and that disaffiliation appears to be God’s will for that particular church, a special Congregational meeting will be called.  The purpose of this initial meeting will be to hear from the membership their own discernment and desire either to disaffiliate or to remain part of the PC(USA).  Though a quorum for Congregational meetings is set by the Book of Order at 10%, in order to fairly hear the voice of the church, it is expected that 50% of the active membership will participate in the meeting.&lt;br /&gt;2. At the meeting it is allowable to conduct a non-binding written ballot vote to discern how many members, should the way be clear, would desire dismissal from the PC(USA).&lt;br /&gt;3. If a minimum of 75% of the attending members vote for dismissal, the PDT will begin to negotiate terms of dismissal with the congregation through its Session, Pastors and Finance Committee.&lt;br /&gt;4. During negotiation if an impasse is reached between the Presbytery and the congregation, both agree to submit to binding arbitration.  The arbiter will be a practicing Christian and a member of the American Arbitration Association or the Peacemaker Ministries.  The arbiter will be agreed upon by both parties, and both agree to submit to his/her decisions without exception. The costs for the arbiter will be divided equally between the Presbytery  and the congregation.&lt;br /&gt;5. As negotiations proceed, both parties will be mindful of reaching an honorable and equitable settlement which recognizes the responsibilities towards all involved—the members who wish to leave the PC(USA), those who wish to remain, and the Presbytery of Olympia and its mission.  In cases where a financial settlement is part of the dismissal agreement, that settlement will be based on fairly and proportionately meeting those responsibilities.&lt;br /&gt;6. As a primary responsibility, both the congregation and the Presbytery will seek to meet the spiritual needs of those members desiring to stay within the PC(USA).&lt;br /&gt;7. At the conclusion of the negotiations, a Congregational meeting will be called to vote on the possible dismissal and agreement with the negotiated plan.  At least fifty percent of the current active membership must attend the meeting.  An affirmative vote of at least seventy-five percent will be required to pass the dismissal motion.&lt;br /&gt;8. The final step of the Jubilee Process will be the ratification of the disaffiliation agreement by the Presbytery of Olympia and the voting to grant dismissal.  In the case of a negative vote of Presbytery, the process of Binding Arbitration will be followed.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;SERVICE OF COMMISSIONING&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Should a particular congregation and the Presbytery of Olympia discern together that the best course of action should be that the congregation withdraw from the PC(USA), and once the details of the separation agreement are decided, ratified by the Presbytery and settled, a service of worship will be held to celebrate our common life in Christ and pray for the well-being and effectiveness of both the congregation and the Presbytery. Those departing the PC(USA) will be commissioned by the Presbytery to further their work for the Kingdom as they go forward in ministry. The service will be jointly planned by a planning team comprised of three people appointed by the Council of the Presbytery and three people appointed by the Session of the church.  All congregations of the Presbytery of Olympia shall be invited.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-890952528113774186?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/890952528113774186/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=890952528113774186' title='2 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/890952528113774186'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/890952528113774186'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/09/jubilee.html' title='Jubilee!'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SOEJmvvYMrI/AAAAAAAAAVI/0LpZUPZToLo/s72-c/DSC_0464.JPG' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>2</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-5309021233713293070</id><published>2008-09-27T08:43:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-09-27T08:50:07.825-07:00</updated><title type='text'>A One Post Break—Today is For Our Daughter!</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SN5V8OvFEHI/AAAAAAAAAUo/y-8zhYZyvUs/s1600-h/DSC_0195.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SN5V8OvFEHI/AAAAAAAAAUo/y-8zhYZyvUs/s320/DSC_0195.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5250728708796649586" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SN5V8REoYBI/AAAAAAAAAUw/IY4HgxP8cpo/s1600-h/DSC_0213.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SN5V8REoYBI/AAAAAAAAAUw/IY4HgxP8cpo/s320/DSC_0213.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5250728709423915026" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SN5V8rN1SUI/AAAAAAAAAU4/kkrM2ziCU3Q/s1600-h/DSC_0057.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SN5V8rN1SUI/AAAAAAAAAU4/kkrM2ziCU3Q/s320/DSC_0057.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5250728716441831746" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SN5V857saqI/AAAAAAAAAVA/WsXzL-EUYEk/s1600-h/DSC_0220.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SN5V857saqI/AAAAAAAAAVA/WsXzL-EUYEk/s320/DSC_0220.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5250728720392284834" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A few more dahlia pics before getting to the blog…&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Our daughter (who for security reasons will remain nameless) woke up this morning on the mission field—once again.  She has a passion for people groups that have not had the opportunity to hear the good news of Jesus.  Since graduating from college she has been on the mission field twice before—with the same group.  She spent five months in China helping to open a new mission effort to reach an unreached people group on the Tibetan plain of China.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Her true mission passion is for the unreached Muslim groups in North Africa.  After China, she spent almost three months in the Sahara Desert in a Muslim refugee camp teaching English.  I cannot go into details for “security” reasons.  While she and her team mate were in the camp, the very first person from this people group accepted Jesus as his Savior and Lord!  They baptized this person the day before they left the camp.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Once again, our daughter and her team are back in the camp.  Several of the Muslim young ladies are very open to talking about God and Jesus.  Please keep them in your prayers.  The entire team got sick the last time they were there.  The team also experienced loneliness—due to isolation, difficult living conditions and so little contact with people who speak English.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Seeing the mission updates on Presbyweb is great.  Presbyterian mission co-workers do good work.  Unfortunately, we do not do a good job of reaching unreached people groups!  Hopefully, one day the PCUSA will once again try to bring the gospel to people who have never had the opportunity to hear about Jesus.  Until then, para-church mission groups will be the front line of this particular type of outreach.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Please keep our daughter and her mission team in your prayers.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-5309021233713293070?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/5309021233713293070/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=5309021233713293070' title='2 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/5309021233713293070'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/5309021233713293070'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/09/one-post-breaktoday-is-for-our-daughter.html' title='A One Post Break—Today is For Our Daughter!'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SN5V8OvFEHI/AAAAAAAAAUo/y-8zhYZyvUs/s72-c/DSC_0195.JPG' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>2</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-3024756887335608693</id><published>2008-09-24T08:18:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-09-24T08:21:55.418-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Why the Distrust—An Answer to our General Assembly Moderator.</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SNpa4k93JVI/AAAAAAAAAT4/KjHr4iKS0dc/s1600-h/DSC_0114.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SNpa4k93JVI/AAAAAAAAAT4/KjHr4iKS0dc/s320/DSC_0114.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5249608243696051538" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SNpa5BAjLUI/AAAAAAAAAUA/I8jtvpkOepA/s1600-h/DSC_0134.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SNpa5BAjLUI/AAAAAAAAAUA/I8jtvpkOepA/s320/DSC_0134.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5249608251223518530" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SNpa5i8AqRI/AAAAAAAAAUI/ACjnZZ1KKQ8/s1600-h/DSC_0128.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SNpa5i8AqRI/AAAAAAAAAUI/ACjnZZ1KKQ8/s320/DSC_0128.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5249608260331284754" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A few more dahlia pics before getting to the blog…&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Rev. Reyes Chow posted the following comment on my blog:&lt;br /&gt;“Thanks for sharing your thoughts and journey. Surprisingly what caught my eye on your post was this "policy" of your Presbytery that prevented you for sharing earlier. Can you share? Is there a "no-blogging" policy or is it more of a "don't air in-house stuff" kind of understanding? Or something else? Thanks.”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;First, I would like to thank the moderator for reading my blog.  It is good to know that “someone” in the denomination is concerned with what is happening in the PCUSA.  Second, here is my response…&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It has been said that “trust is something that is earned.”  Over the years I have talked with several couples where one of the partners was unfaithful.  Trust had been broken.  The offending person wanted their spouse to “trust” them.  Trust was hard to come by. In my opinion, trust doesn’t just “happen.”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There is distrust at every level of the PCUSA.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I served on the General Council (GC) of our Presbytery—filling an unexpired term and then a full term.  While on GC, there were some members of the GC who were uncomfortable with worship at our Presbytery meetings.  One day I show up for a GC meeting and find that a policy for worship at Presbytery meetings had been written.  Who wrote in?  To this day I can only speculate.  After much discussion the policy was adopted (it was not unanimous) and was to be present at the next Presbytery meeting for approval.  At the next Presbytery meeting the policy was indeed presented for approval by the Presbytery.  Boy, did the you-know-what hit the fan.  The Presbytery was so displeased with the proposed worship policy that they sent it back on the GC to have the policy redone.  I was shocked at the next GC meeting.  One powerful person on GC said that they didn’t care what the Presbytery said and that since it is the General Council’s policy we can do what ever we want.  That thinking carried the day and the policy was adopted by the GC.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Trust?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Just yesterday I was in a meeting of some pastors and elders.  There were a couple of members of the current GC at the meeting.  They were asked, “Who wrote the current policy paper?” (Discerning God’s Leading)  Neither member of council knew who wrote the paper!!!  A substitute policy paper was to be presented at last week’s Presbytery meeting—coming from the session of one of our churches in the Presbytery.  The day before the meeting a “comparison” document was emailed to the Presbytery delegates.  The church that wrote the new document that was to be presented inquired as to who wrote the comparison document.  Presbytery staff refused to tell them!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Trust?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Distrust at the national level is so rampant that it does not need to be restated.  However, since the moderator brought up the issue I will mention one instance that involved the moderator and this past General Assembly.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A marriage between two gay men was conducted at a “dinner” at this past General Assembly meeting.  This dinner is hosted at each Assembly meeting by one of the groups that is laboring to change denomination’s policy concerning the ordination of practicing, unrepentant gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender persons.  The pastor that performed the marriage said that she could get into trouble for doing the wedding but that she would do it any way.  I have questions our Presbytery staff and delegates as to whether anything was said on the floor of the Assembly about the “wedding.”    They unanimously said that not one word was said at the Assembly!  How is this for trust!  Our highest governing body is meeting and a pastor (and an affinity group) openly break denominational policy and not one thing is done about it (or said about it) by the moderator, stated clerk or any other person in authority at the Assembly.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Trust?  Mr. Moderator, how can I “trust” you when you do not even try to enforce the rules of the denomination while you are running our national meeting?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Other Presbyteries have tried to deal “pastorally” with congregations and pastors that are seeking to leave the denomination and have ended up in the church courts for their actions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Trust?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Mr. Moderator, can you see why I have “trust issues” with my Presbytery and General Assembly?&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-3024756887335608693?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/3024756887335608693/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=3024756887335608693' title='8 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/3024756887335608693'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/3024756887335608693'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/09/why-distrustan-answer-to-our-general.html' title='Why the Distrust—An Answer to our General Assembly Moderator.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SNpa4k93JVI/AAAAAAAAAT4/KjHr4iKS0dc/s72-c/DSC_0114.JPG' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>8</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-8984191844998474155</id><published>2008-09-23T08:24:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-09-23T08:28:56.475-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Our Presbytery Policy – The Hammer!</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SNkK5CB1nOI/AAAAAAAAATg/ddS8yeJ1Fjg/s1600-h/DSC_0155.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SNkK5CB1nOI/AAAAAAAAATg/ddS8yeJ1Fjg/s320/DSC_0155.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5249238815590423778" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SNkK5ltwqVI/AAAAAAAAATo/u--qwQBxrBc/s1600-h/DSC_0132.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SNkK5ltwqVI/AAAAAAAAATo/u--qwQBxrBc/s320/DSC_0132.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5249238825169889618" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SNkK5wMagLI/AAAAAAAAATw/x8I9OzUKgHY/s1600-h/DSC_0122.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SNkK5wMagLI/AAAAAAAAATw/x8I9OzUKgHY/s320/DSC_0122.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5249238827982815410" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Here are some more pics of my dahlias…&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Here is a copy of our Presbytery’s policy concerning church and pastors that are thinking of leaving the PCUSA…&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;DISCERNING GOD’S LEADING TOGETHER&lt;br /&gt;Presbytery of Olympia&lt;br /&gt;May 15, 2008&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A Process of Working with Congregations Considering Withdrawal from the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Spiritual discernment is a focused effort to sort out the will of God, distinguishing God’s Spirit from other spirits that may be influencing us, such as the spirit of tradition, or anger, loyalty, self-will or control. Discernment requires intentional prayer, careful study, and deep listening to God and to each other.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Hear the words of St. Paul:  “I therefore, the prisoner in the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, making every effort to maintain the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace.  There is one body and one spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in all.”  (Ephesians 4:1-5)  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We, members of the Presbytery of Olympia, will seek to honor the Scripture through respectful process and open dialogue. The premise upon which our process is built is that when we approach discernment together with intentionality and sincerity, the will of God and the way of Love will be revealed. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Discerning God’s Leading Together guides congregations and the Presbytery, working in partnership, toward answering the questions, “Is God leading this particular congregation to disaffiliate from the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)?”  And if so, “how can that be accomplished in a way that honors Christ and strengthens both the congregation and the Presbytery?” &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The ultimate goal of the Presbytery will be to discern whether reconciliation and continued relationship are possible.  It is clear that in times of great turmoil and disagreement, some may perceive withdrawal as imperative and God’s will for them. The following process outlines the steps we will use as a presbytery to respond to situations where our congregations, or leaders within are considering withdrawal from the PC(U.S.A.). &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;We will seek to respect both freedom of conscience and the essentials of Reformed Faith and polity as expressed in The Book of Confessions and the “Form of Government”, subject always to Scripture and the movement of the Spirit.  We will work in good faith toward a mutually agreeable solution, but ultimately the decision reached through this process should reflect what would best serve not ourselves, but the cause of Christ. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;SECTION ONE – RESPONSE TEAM&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When the leadership of the presbytery becomes aware, either through formal congregational action or through informal contacts with church leaders or members, that a congregation is in serious disagreement with the governance of the denomination, the General Presbyter, Committee on Ministry Chairperson, and Presbytery Moderator will offer a pastoral visit by a Response Team. It is assumed that before this process begins the General Presbyter will have had conversation with the pastor.&lt;br /&gt; &lt;br /&gt;The Response Team shall consist of one Council member, one person appointed by the Committee on Ministry (COM), a member-at-large of the Presbytery, and the General Presbyter.  The purpose of this team is to engage either the session, or if necessary  the congregation, or the congregation as a whole (as circumstances dictate), in a time of prayer and conversation aimed at understanding the “heart of the matter” – meaning the nature of the conflict and what Gospel values are at play  -- and to identify possible steps toward reconciliation.  Before meeting with the church session for the first time, team members should study “Guidelines for Communal Discernment” by Rev. V. Curtiss. Team members may be added depending on the scope of the effort, e.g., meeting with several small groups will require a bigger team than meeting with the session only.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;TOPICS FOR CONVERSATION MAY INCLUDE: &lt;br /&gt;• the nature of discernment&lt;br /&gt;• rooting the identified issues in Scripture and our Reformed Tradition&lt;br /&gt;• exploration of church polity including Book of Order provision that a congregation’s property belongs to the whole church&lt;br /&gt;• exploration of constitutional ways of influencing the polity of the PC(U.S.A.)&lt;br /&gt;• options before the congregation&lt;br /&gt;• strategies for listening to any clearly identified factions within the congregation&lt;br /&gt;• reflecting on Scripture together and praying&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If the team determines that progress can be made toward reconciliation through continued dialogue, the team will make recommendations to the Council for conducting such dialogue. The team report and recommendations will be provided to the Council within one month of the initial visit and will outline any planned next steps (such as the above) to be undertaken in partnership with the leadership of the congregation, including an expected time line for the completion of the planned process.  The process and time line should not exceed 120 days. If this team effort leads to resolution of the situation, no further action is required and to God be the glory! &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In the event that steps toward separation from the denomination appear to be in process, the Response Team shall report its evaluation of the current situation to both the Council and the Committee on Ministry as soon as possible.  The Moderator and Vice Moderator of Council, the Stated Clerk, and the Chair of the Committee on Ministry, will meet with the Response Team to determine if a recommendation should be made to Council that an Administrative Commission should be elected by the presbytery, and recommend appropriate action [Ref.  Book of Order,]&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;SECTION TWO  -- ADMINISTRATIVE COMMISSION (AC) PROCESS&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When any congregation, in partnership with the Presbytery, has not been able to resolve issues using the Response Team phase of Discerning God’s Leading Together, an Administrative Commission (AC) shall be formed by vote of the Presbytery.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If at any time the Response Team determines that the move toward separation/withdrawal is the work of a special interest group and not representative of the congregation, the team, on notice to Council, will immediately request that the Moderator of the presbytery and Stated Clerk nominate an AC as soon as possible. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If the leadership of the congregation refuses an initial Response Team visit an AC will be nominated by the Moderator of the Presbytery and Stated Clerk and elected by the presbytery as soon as possible. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If an AC is to be recommended to Presbytery, this decision will be communicated to the congregation concerned immediately, by letter from the Moderator to every member, and the nominees to the commission will be appointed within 15 days of that notification. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;DUTIES AND AUTHORITIES&lt;br /&gt;The AC is guided by the presbytery-approved commission outlining specific duties and authorities for a particular situation.  The AC shall keep the presbytery informed of actions taken, and shall make recommendations directly to presbytery for any actions that require presbytery approval.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;TRAINING AND COMPOSITION&lt;br /&gt;When an AC is required for this process, the Moderator of the Presbytery, the General Presbyter, the Committee on Ministry chairperson and the Stated Clerk shall nominate seven people to be elected by the presbytery. Members of the AC may include individuals with special skills, training or experience in mediation and negotiation.  At least three members of the AC, so nominated and elected, shall be minister-members of the presbytery, and at least three shall be elders from different churches in the presbytery and be representative of the presbytery as a whole; the seventh member of the AC may be either a minister or elder [G-9.0504b (3)] Members of the Response Team may be considered for the AC.  After election members of the AC will be trained by a team of the Stated Clerk, General Presbyter, and a representative of the Committee on Ministry. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;ELECTION:  The proposed membership and commission of this group shall be reported to the presbytery in the form of a written motion for approval and election.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;STAFF SUPPORT:  The AC shall be staffed by the Stated Clerk of the presbytery. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;FINAL REPORT:  The presbytery shall receive the final report of the AC, act on any remaining recommendations, and dismiss the AC at the completion of its work. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;General Rules:  The following general rules apply to the selection and election of an AC: &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;o An AC elected for this purpose shall not include these persons:  The Stated Clerk,  General Presbyter, Moderator, Vice Moderator, Moderatorial Intern, Chair of COM, or any member of the Permanent Judicial Commission. &lt;br /&gt;o The presbytery may delegate to Council the authority to add, remove or replace members of an AC when it is apparent that some members(s) need relief or in order to bring in persons with new skills or gifts to the process.  Such a replacement shall be reported to the presbytery.  The presbytery may delegate to Council authority to grant permission to an AC to contact outside authorities for temporary consultation with the AC on specific matters. &lt;br /&gt;o Quorum of AC shall be a majority of its elected and appointed members, unless the presbytery fixes a quorum at a higher number. &lt;br /&gt;o The AC will have full authority of the presbytery to execute the limited powers granted by the presbytery (G-9.0502).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Initially the AC should study “Guidelines for Communal Discernment” authored by Rev. Victoria G. Curtiss.  Using this tool, and studying the situation in the congregation, its task will be to gather facts, seek discernment in partnership with the congregation, and recommend appropriate action to Council and/or the Presbytery.  It may be given certain constitutional authority such as:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1. to request records of the session (G-12.0102n, G-12.0304, G.13.0103k,n) (G-9.0408) “If a higher governing body learns at any time of any irregularity or delinquency by a lower governing body, it may require the governing body to produce any records and take appropriate action;”&lt;br /&gt;2. to look at whatever records may be relevant (i.e., how money is held, title to property, insurance documents, mortgages or other loan documents, corporate officers, corporate articles, bylaws, charters – especially changes in any of these).  The AC will be careful to look for recent changes or modifications to articles of incorporation, bylaws, or deeds.  The presbytery is entitled to see such changes in legal documents (G-9.0408);&lt;br /&gt;3. to determine, after reviewing the proceedings of the lower governing body or from any other information as may come to its attention, whether, &lt;br /&gt;a.. the proceedings have been faithful to the mission of the whole church (G-9.0409a);&lt;br /&gt;b. the lawful injunctions of a higher governing body have been obeyed (G-9.0409a);&lt;br /&gt;4. to give directives (G-9.0410) on behalf of the presbytery;&lt;br /&gt;a. “It is ordinarily sufficient for the higher governing body to record in its own proceedings, and in those under review, its approval, disapproval, or correction.  If necessary, the higher governing body may direct the lower governing body to reconsider and correct an irregularity or cure a delinquency”  (G.9.0410);&lt;br /&gt;b. The type of directive will depend on the issues (examples: refrain from calling a congregational meeting, transferring assets, encumbering property, elect new officers, etc.);&lt;br /&gt;5. to recommend whether the AC should return to Presbytery for authorization of additional powers; &lt;br /&gt;6. to determine whether a schism exists within the congregation;&lt;br /&gt;7. to determine which members represent the continuing church;&lt;br /&gt;8. to make recommendations to the presbytery to dissolve pastoral relationships, or when requisite authority given by the presbytery, to dissolve pastoral relationships;&lt;br /&gt;9. to assume original jurisdiction in any case it determines the session is unable or unwilling to manage wisely the affairs of its church;&lt;br /&gt;10. to freeze the assets of the church (real and liquid);&lt;br /&gt;11. to determine if and when a meeting of the congregation is appropriate for the purpose of voting to withdraw from the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.);&lt;br /&gt;12. to call that congregational meeting, and provide the moderator and clerk for that meeting;&lt;br /&gt;13. to report results of congregational vote to Council;&lt;br /&gt;14. to authorize oversight of the church, its ministry and its property to a viable faction of the congregation that has been identified as the continuing church within the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.); or, if no “viable faction” will be continuing, to assist current and former members of the congregation who wish to remain members of the PC(U.S.A.) with membership transfer to another congregation or New Church Development; and&lt;br /&gt;15. to propose to the presbytery the recommendation for the disposition of the property held by or for the church, and the assumption of the liabilities of the church, in the event there is no viable faction of the congregation that has been identified as the continuing church within the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.). This will be done in ways that honor Jesus Christ, the PCUA and the newly constituted congregation. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A. COMMUNICATION:  The AC shall keep all concerned parties informed.&lt;br /&gt;1. Send a letter to session outlining task and process (wording should be measured and clear).&lt;br /&gt;2. Send a letter to all members of the congregation outlining the task and process (measured, non-threatening, explanatory).&lt;br /&gt;3. The team shall have “one-on-one” conversation(s) with the pastor.&lt;br /&gt;4. Communicate often with the Council through the Council Moderator.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;B. DURATION OF WORK:  It is expected that the AC will ordinarily complete its work within one year, making reports to the Council and the Committee on Ministry, and ultimately to the Presbytery for vote.  If the congregation has been determined to be of one mind (no significant conflict of factions within the church), the AC may allow a congregational vote and negotiate mutually agreed upon terms of withdrawal.  Final disposition shall not be ratified before six months has elapsed from the start of the Response Team process.  If the AC determines there is significant conflict within the congregation, they should assume original jurisdiction.   &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;REACHING AGREEMENT&lt;br /&gt;Questions to ask once a TENTATIVE agreement has been reached include:&lt;br /&gt;Is there a new sense of hope and vision?&lt;br /&gt;Is there consolation or desolation in the decision?&lt;br /&gt;Is there resonance with God’s Spirit?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If these questions produce further concern the decision is revisited. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Terms of the agreement would be presented for vote to the Presbytery at either a stated or specially called meeting.   &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;WORSHIP&lt;br /&gt;Should a particular congregation and the Presbytery of Olympia discern together that the best course of action should be that the congregation withdraw from the PC(U.S.A.), and once the details of the separation agreement are decided, ratified by the Presbytery and settled, a service of worship will be held to celebrate our common life in Christ and pray for the well-being and effectiveness of both the congregation and the Presbytery. The service will be jointly planned by a planning team comprised of three people appointed by the Council of the Presbytery and three people appointed by the Session of the church.  All congregations of the Presbytery of Olympia shall be invited.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;*     *      *     *&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There are some major flaws with this policy!  Today I will focus on “We, members of the Presbytery of Olympia, will seek to honor the Scripture through respectful process and open dialogue.”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There can be no open discussions about the topics facing our congregations and denomination by sessions or pastors when the policy document explicitly states that a “Response Team” will pay a visit to a church or pastor if the leadership of the presbytery becomes aware that congregation or pastor has serious disagreement with the governance of the denomination.  How is that for openness!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Our Presbytery is having a special presbytery meeting to talk about the proposed amendments to the Book of Order.  The purpose of this meeting is to talk and listen—no vote will be taken.  How can I openly discuss the ramifications of the amendments when there is the threat of a Response Team paying me a visit!  One church session requested that the Presbytery be set aside the policy so that open conversations could take place.  General Council knew that this proposal was going to be presented to the presbytery at the meeting this past week.  As soon as the motion was made to set aside the policy a motion was immediately made to take up the motion at the next Presbytery meeting!  That motion was made so quickly that one second could not have elapsed!  Boy did the you-know-what hit the fan!!!!  For almost 40 minutes there were motions, substitute motions, friendly amendments to the motions and so on.  Commissioners were frustrated beyond belief.  In the end, it was decided to “stay” the enforcement of the policy until the next regular presbytery meeting.  As soon as it passed, another pastor turned to me and said, “I am sure that when the stay of enforcement is over that they will forget everything you said at the special meeting!”  How convenient!  The presbytery will not enforce the policy until after I have an opportunity to air my frustrations with the PCUSA and then I am to “trust” that they will forget everything that I just said.  I am supposed to trust that I won’t have a Response Team breathing down my neck. So much for open dialogue!!&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-8984191844998474155?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/8984191844998474155/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=8984191844998474155' title='1 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8984191844998474155'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8984191844998474155'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/09/our-presbytery-policy-hammer-here-are.html' title='Our Presbytery Policy – The Hammer!'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SNkK5CB1nOI/AAAAAAAAATg/ddS8yeJ1Fjg/s72-c/DSC_0155.JPG' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>1</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-1606584855618626420</id><published>2008-09-22T16:07:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-09-22T16:11:55.071-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Full Court Presby Returns…  Sort Of!</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SNgl7njDODI/AAAAAAAAATY/sd-ULv2XHsk/s1600-h/DSC_0142.JPG"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0px auto 10px; 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	margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; 	mso-header-margin:.5in; 	mso-footer-margin:.5in; 	mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 	{page:Section1;} --&gt; &lt;/style&gt;&lt;!--[if gte mso 10]&gt; &lt;style&gt;  /* Style Definitions */  table.MsoNormalTable 	{mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; 	mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; 	mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; 	mso-style-noshow:yes; 	mso-style-parent:""; 	mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; 	mso-para-margin:0in; 	mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; 	mso-pagination:widow-orphan; 	font-size:10.0pt; 	font-family:"Times New Roman"; 	mso-ansi-language:#0400; 	mso-fareast-language:#0400; 	mso-bidi-language:#0400;} &lt;/style&gt; &lt;![endif]--&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Here are some pics from my dahlia garden.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;June was a bad month for the PCUSA and for my dahlias.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Fortunately, the warm August and September have caused the dahlia’s to bloom like crazy.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Now on to the blog…&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;My self-imposed break from blogging is coming to an end.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;To recap, this past General Assembly and the Stated Clerk’s release on the “authoritative interpretation” regarding the ordination of practicing, non-repentant gay, lesbian, bisexual &amp;amp; transgender persons has made it VERY difficult for me to stay in the PCUSA.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I would have preferred to use this blog to help me work through the feelings, theology and polity decisions that I will have to make; but alas, my Presbytery has a “policy” that makes it very unwise for me to do this in a public forum.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I still have not made up my mind as to what my future is with the PCUSA.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;However, things are happening in my Presbytery that have caused me to return to blogging before I complete my time of study, prayer and reflection.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The Presbytery of Olympia held its September meeting in &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;Onalaska&lt;/st1:city&gt;, &lt;st1:state st="on"&gt;Washington&lt;/st1:state&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;, at Community Presbyterian Church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The meeting was to go from 3:00 p.m. – 8:00 p.m., with a 45 minute break for dinner.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;During dinner I was seated by an elder that was not from my church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This elder had been at one of our Presbytery’s debriefing sessions following GA and remembered my extreme displeasure about the Assembly.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;During the dinner he turned to me and asked, “When is someone going to do something about what is happening in the PCUSA?”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He was clearly EXTREMELY frustrated with the PCUSA and this past GA meeting.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I felt his frustration and anger.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;b style=""&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Olympia Presbytery (the Presbytery where my church is located) has around 10,000 members and the vast majority of churches are evangelical.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;There are some very liberal/progressive churches in our Presbytery.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;However, a vast majority of the “power” positions in our Presbytery are filled with folks who are from the liberal/progressive wing of the church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;(Does that sound like your Presbytery?)&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Our General Council of the Presbytery is very concerned about the future of our Presbytery and the denomination.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The General Council has formed a possibilities task force to look how, or if, we can move forward as a Presbytery in the future.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The General Presbyter talks about how the discussions have been lively and good.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;People I know on the task force have told me that they cannot agree on anything—even the nature of God!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;It is my belief that some Presbyteries need to step forward to help the PCUSA move beyond this mess we have been in since 1978.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Some people may end up being sacrificial lambs in the effort.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I am unwilling to keep fighting this same battle for the rest of my years in ministry.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Guess what?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It is not just evangelical Presbyterians that are tired of this fight.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;A few weeks ago I sat down with one of the more progressive pastors in my Presbytery.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He, too, is tired of this endless battle.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He cannot do ministry that he would like to do.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We agree that no matter which side “wins” at a given General Assembly meeting the other “side” is going to work non-stop to “win” at the next General Assembly meeting.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Those of us in the PCUSA have to be insane to live and minister like this.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;My colleague and I are looking at ways that we might encourage our Presbytery to take the lead and end this fight.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;If it means that the denomination splits—so be it.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Presbyterian Global Fellowship (PGF) and Presbyterians for Renewal (PFR) want the PCUSA to stay together—just not totally together.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The champion the concept that to split the church is not right.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;First, the PCUSA is a denomination, not the church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;If we are truly concerned about splitting the church then those groups would work hard to unite the Methodists, Assemblies of God, Church of the Nazarene, Evangelical Lutheran Church of American, and all the rest.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Second, if our beliefs are such that we have to have “special” Presbyteries and with different “rules” then I would challenge the PGF and PFR stances for keeping the PCUSA together.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Enough for now.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Tomorrow I will talk more about what is happening in our Presbytery.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-1606584855618626420?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/1606584855618626420/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=1606584855618626420' title='4 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/1606584855618626420'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/1606584855618626420'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/09/full-court-presby-returns-sort-of.html' title='Full Court Presby Returns…  Sort Of!'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SNgl7njDODI/AAAAAAAAATY/sd-ULv2XHsk/s72-c/DSC_0142.JPG' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>4</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-8854901309304784841</id><published>2008-07-22T09:07:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-07-22T09:11:29.080-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Options for Moving Forward – The Wise Words of Mark Roberts and Signing Off for Now.</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;It is strange and bizarre to think that the pastor of a church can have an impact on the larger church by using the internet.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;What a ministry tool!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Early in my blogging “career” I ran across a blog by Mark Roberts.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;(&lt;a href="http://www.markdroberts.com/"&gt;Mark’s blog can be found here.)&lt;/a&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;   &lt;/span&gt;At the time, Mark was the senior pastor at Irvine Presbyterian Church, &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;Irvine&lt;/st1:City&gt;, &lt;st1:state st="on"&gt;California&lt;/st1:State&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I was drawn to Mark’s blog because he wrote about a wide range of topics that face the church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Mark was (and is) faithful to the biblical text.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Mark’s blog is fantastic.  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Following the 2008 General Assembly, Mark wrote a series on the future of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) titled, “Can We, Can We All Get Along?”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Please read his four posts:&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;            &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://markdroberts.com/?p=522"&gt;Section 1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;            &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://markdroberts.com/?p=525"&gt;Section 2&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;            &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://markdroberts.com/?p=526"&gt;Section 3&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;           &lt;a href="http://markdroberts.com/?p=527"&gt; &lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://markdroberts.com/?p=527"&gt;Section 4&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;These posts are an accurate reflection of the ordination battles that PCUSA has been experiencing for 30+ years.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I firmly believe that those who want to ordain sexually active LGBT persons believe that the issue is a “justice issue” and that they are doing what God is calling them to do.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I firmly believe that those who do not want to ordain sexually active LGBT persons (or persons who are sexually active outside of the covenant of marriage between one man and one woman) believe that it is a matter of holiness and biblical faithfulness.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;These folks firmly believe that they are doing the will of God.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;These are the two main groups driving the ordination debate.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Proponents of the ordination of practicing LGBT persons do not define the parameters for the ordination of such persons.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Do they believe:&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;ul style="margin-top: 0in;" type="disc"&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;That      only LGBT persons who are living in fidelity in a civil union should be      ordained?&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;That      LGBT persons who practice consensual sexual intercourse should be      ordained?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;If so, what about the      heterosexual married person who has consensual sexual intercourse with a      person they are not married to?&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;That      the church should affirm marriage for LGBT persons and then only those      LGBT persons who are married should be ordained?&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;That      bisexual persons who are seeking to fulfill their desire for sexual      gratification from males and females can be ordained?&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The actions of the past General Assembly have caused me to take a serious look at my life, calling and ministry.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;b style=""&gt;Where to from here?&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;This will be my last “official” post on FullCourtPresby for several months (I cannot envision this process taking less than three or four months).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I will be spending my “normal” blogging time (research and writing time) in prayer, Bible study, meditation, fasting and personal reflection—allowing the Holy Spirit to move and speak.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;For those from Evergreen that read my blog, fear not!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I am not planning on leaving Evergreen or the PCUSA.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Session and I will continue our efforts to move into the church into the preferred future that God has for our church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Deacons and I will continue to minister and care for our church family (the needs will be great due to the large number of folks who are in the twilight years of their time on earth.).&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;In my opinion, one of the biggest problems in the PCUSA is that we have pastors who are in the pastoral ministry who have no business being there.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Every few years I ask the Lord if it is time for me to leave the ministry and seek a different vocation.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;God’s call on our life can change!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Unfortunately, it is too easy to keep on doing the same old, same old thing.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;So… my break from blogging begins tomorrow.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I have already begun this discernment journey—and it has been refreshing, and challenging.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I look forward to discovering where God is leading me.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I am keeping a journal (and I HATE journaling!) of this process.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;When the time is right I may share a summary of my journal through this blog.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Until then, I will be posting photos of my dahlias beginning the week of August 4&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;God’s blessings on you all! &lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-8854901309304784841?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/8854901309304784841/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=8854901309304784841' title='2 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8854901309304784841'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8854901309304784841'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/07/options-for-moving-forward-wise-words.html' title='Options for Moving Forward – The Wise Words of Mark Roberts and Signing Off for Now.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>2</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-1367584371038600490</id><published>2008-07-21T16:05:00.001-07:00</published><updated>2008-07-21T16:05:47.458-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Options for Moving Forward – The Other Side.</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;I have spent quite a bit of time looking at how the groups advocating for the ordination of sexually active LGBT persons are planning on moving forward.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The only thing that I find is the desire to get the votes to remove G-6.0106b removed from the &lt;i style=""&gt;Book of Order&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-1367584371038600490?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/1367584371038600490/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=1367584371038600490' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/1367584371038600490'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/1367584371038600490'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/07/options-for-moving-forward-other-side.html' title='Options for Moving Forward – The Other Side.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-512923656739865722</id><published>2008-07-18T09:55:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-07-18T10:01:53.555-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Options for Moving Forward – Presbyterian Global Fellowship (PGF), Presbyterian Renewal Ministries International and the Presbyterian Coalition.</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;The PCUSA is in a mess!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;How are we to move forward?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Various groups within the PCUSA have spoken on this topic.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Many faithful Presbyterians do not have the time or desire to find out what the various groups are saying.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It is my intention to give a “best effort” to accurately present the “way forward” presented by the various groups with in the PCUSA.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The last post looked at Presbyterians for Renewal (PFR).  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Before moving forward I have to poke fun at us Presbyterians.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Have you ever noticed how many acronyms float around the PCUSA (there’s one!)?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Last weekend I received a text from one of our church’s high school students.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;A group of students was headed for Graham Jam to work in our church’s booth.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;There were a couple of abbreviations that I did not recognize—I still don’t know one of them!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It got me to thinking… I had better make sure that everyone knows the main acronyms:&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 39pt; text-indent: -0.25in;"&gt;&lt;!--[if !supportLists]--&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Symbol;"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;·&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!--[endif]--&gt;PCUSA – Presbyterian Church (&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;U.S.A.&lt;/st1:country-region&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;).&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 39pt; text-indent: -0.25in;"&gt;&lt;!--[if !supportLists]--&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Symbol;"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;·&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!--[endif]--&gt;PC(USA)—see PCUSA above.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 39pt; text-indent: -0.25in;"&gt;&lt;!--[if !supportLists]--&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Symbol;"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;·&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!--[endif]--&gt;EPC—Evangelical Presbyterian Church.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 39pt; text-indent: -0.25in;"&gt;&lt;!--[if !supportLists]--&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Symbol;"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;·&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!--[endif]--&gt;PCA—Presbyterian Church in &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;America&lt;/st1:country-region&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 39pt; text-indent: -0.25in;"&gt;&lt;!--[if !supportLists]--&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Symbol;"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;·&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!--[endif]--&gt;GA—General Assembly.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 39pt; text-indent: -0.25in;"&gt;&lt;!--[if !supportLists]--&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Symbol;"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;·&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!--[endif]--&gt;Amendment B—&lt;i style=""&gt;Book of Order&lt;/i&gt;, Form of Government section G-6.0106b; additionally referred to as the “Fidelity and Chastity Amendment” even though it has been in the &lt;i style=""&gt;Book of Order&lt;/i&gt; for years.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 39pt; text-indent: -0.25in;"&gt;&lt;!--[if !supportLists]--&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Symbol;"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;·&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!--[endif]--&gt;PFR—Presbyterians for Renewal, an evangelical renewal group in the PCUSA.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 39pt; text-indent: -0.25in;"&gt;&lt;!--[if !supportLists]--&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Symbol;"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;·&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!--[endif]--&gt;LGBT—Lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender persons who are sexually active.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 39pt; text-indent: -0.25in;"&gt;&lt;!--[if !supportLists]--&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Symbol;"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;·&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!--[endif]--&gt;GLBT—Gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender persons who are sexually active, this is the “original” form of LGBT but was changed because it was politically incorrect in that it started with a “male” word.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 39pt; text-indent: -0.25in;"&gt;&lt;!--[if !supportLists]--&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Symbol;"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;·&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!--[endif]--&gt;MLP—More Light Presbyterians, a liberal/progressive group within the PCUSA that seeks full inclusion of LGBT persons in every aspect of the PCUSA (including ordained positions).&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 39pt; text-indent: -0.25in;"&gt;&lt;!--[if !supportLists]--&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Symbol;"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;·&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!--[endif]--&gt;PGF—Presbyterian Global Fellowship, an evangelical renewal group in the PCUSA.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 39pt; text-indent: -0.25in;"&gt;&lt;!--[if !supportLists]--&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Symbol;"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;·&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!--[endif]--&gt;PRMI—Presbyterian Reformed Ministries International, an evangelical renewal group in the denomination, headed by Brad Long, that leans heavily toward the Charismatic movement (formerly called PRRM—Presbyterian Reformed and Renewal Movement).&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 39pt; text-indent: -0.25in;"&gt;&lt;!--[if !supportLists]--&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Symbol;"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;·&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!--[endif]--&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Please feel free to add to the list!!!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Now, on to &lt;b style=""&gt;Presbyterian Global Fellowship.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;To date, PGF does not have an “official” response to the 2008 General Assembly.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Their &lt;a href="http://www.presbyterianglobalfellowship.org/pgf/"&gt;web site&lt;/a&gt; does not list any such response.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;On their official blog (&lt;a href="http://pgf.typepad.com/"&gt;PGF Outbox&lt;/a&gt;), Vic Pentz (Pastor Peach Tree Presbyterian Church) has a post dated July 1, 2008, titled “&lt;a href="http://pgf.typepad.com/outbox/2008/07/do-you-know-the.html#more"&gt;Do You Know the Way from &lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;San Jose&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:City&gt;?&lt;/a&gt;”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I assume that he is speaking with “authority” as to PGF’s response to the Assembly.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Pentz makes the following observations:&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;ul style="margin-top: 0in;" type="disc"&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;“…the      PC(USA) rejected unequivocally what has long been considered—and still is      in the global church-- the biblical standards for sexual practice.”&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;“The      battle is lost for evangelical renewal groups within the system. The old      “stay-fight-win” strategy is history.”&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;“The      options now remaining seem to be: 1) to live with the new ascendant      ideology; 2) to enter into the legal complexities of trying to get      permission for one’s congregation to be dismissed to another denomination;      or 3) to find a way to be ‘in the denomination but not of the      denomination.’&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This third option is      the one Presbyterian Global Fellowship affirms.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;“The      Presbyterian Global Fellowship seeks to be a parallel society living a new      vision for the church within the PC(USA).”&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;PGF plans to stay in the PCUSA as a parallel society.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;But, what does that actually mean?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;What does it mean to be “in the denomination but not of the denomination?”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Will PGF churches pay presbytery, synod and GA per capita?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Will PGF churches be active participants at presbytery meetings?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Will PGF churches give mission $$$ to GA mission causes?&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I use to coach 4&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt;, 5&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt;, and 6&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt; grade basketball teams.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Coaching 4&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt; graders was fun, but extremely challenging.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Everyone wanted to shoot from the top of the key like their favorite professional basketball player.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Each player wanted to dribble the ball ALL AROUND THE COURT.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Players acted like “I own the ball and I will do whatever I want to with it.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I had a player that I will call “GP” (after Gary Payton, formerly of the Sonic).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;GP refused to run lines like the rest of his teammates.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;GP shot the ball from the top of the key every time he touched the ball (even though he had a difficult time even getting the ball to the rim from that distance).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;GP refused to be a team player.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;One day I sat GP down and told him I had had enough of his behavior.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I told him what I expected from him and that if he disobeyed one more time that he would not be allowed back on the court until I talked with his mom and dad.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;His attitude changed immediately!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I coached GP for three years.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I periodically see GP or his dad at the grocery store.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They still call me “Coach.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;GP is gone on to a success stint in the military.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;GP learned what it means to be part of a team.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The PGF direction reminds of coaching my 4&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt; grade team.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;PGF is going to “keep their ball” within the confines of the PCUSA, ignoring the rest of their team, unless it suits their fancy.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;b style=""&gt;Presbyterian Renewal Ministries International&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The PRMI &lt;a href="http://www.prmi.org/"&gt;web site&lt;/a&gt; does not list an official response to the Assembly actions.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Brad Long, Executive Director of PRMI was a signer of on open letter on The Presbyterian Forum web site called, “&lt;a href="http://www.pforum.org/media2.php?id=12&amp;amp;t=1"&gt;Presbyterian Renewal Network Joint Statement.&lt;/a&gt;”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The open letter says, “We invite Presbyterians to join us in seeking God’s help to turn back this effort to lead the Church to a place where it is in danger of becoming no Church. None of the damage done by this Assembly is final or irreversible.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Other than this letter I have been unable to find any public statement by PRMI on the Assembly actions.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;From the “Joint Statement” one could conclude that PRMI believes in the “stay, fight, win” camp.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;b style=""&gt;Presbyterian Coalition&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The &lt;a href="http://www.presbycoalition.org/"&gt;Presbyterian Coalition&lt;/a&gt; (“Coalition” from here on) is a loose knit group of Presbyterians and renewal groups that are in the conservative and/or evangelical camps.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I attended a Coalition meeting in &lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Orlando&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:City&gt; with several pastor friends.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Additionally, a colleague of mine has served on the Board of the Coalition in the past.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I have been unable to find a direct response to the Assembly actions by the Coalition.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;In 2007, the Coalition created a document that outlined their strategy for bringing about renewal in the PCUSA called, “&lt;a href="http://www.presbycoalition.org/riseup.pdf"&gt;Let Us Rise Up and Build.&lt;/a&gt;”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I assume that this strategy is still in place today.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;For that reason, I believe that the Coalition is in the “stay, fight, win” camp.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;One person observation—the Coalition reminds me of “herding cats.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The meeting I attended as like a gripe session—every one didn’t like the direction that the PCUSA was heading but there was no consensus as to what to do about it.&lt;span style=""&gt;   &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-512923656739865722?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/512923656739865722/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=512923656739865722' title='11 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/512923656739865722'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/512923656739865722'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/07/options-for-moving-forward-presbyterian.html' title='Options for Moving Forward – Presbyterian Global Fellowship (PGF), Presbyterian Renewal Ministries International and the Presbyterian Coalition.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>11</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-8855815608190335396</id><published>2008-07-16T09:53:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-07-16T09:54:13.312-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Broken Heart…</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;Today’s post is a brief departure from my series of posts on options for moving forward in light of the 2008 General Assembly.  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Last night the Presbytery of Olympia had a special gathering to hear from our delegates to General Assembly.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This was the second such gathering in our Presbytery.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I had not planned on making the actions of the General Assembly an issue at Evergreen.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Evergreen Presbyterian Church is a great church but we are faced with many very important issues as we look at the next five years.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;My plan was to focus on our local needs until the voting on the amendments to the constitution were tallied.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;That plan was thrown out the window when Constitutional Service issued Opinion #22.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Back to last night…&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Last night I attended the informational meeting at the Presbytery office with a couple of elders and a retired pastor who is an important part of our church family.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The commissioners shared their impressions of the Assembly—all spoke favorably of the worship services.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The meeting finally turned to the 500 pound gorilla in the room—the troubling actions of the Assembly.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;There was a time for questions that were directed to the commissioners, our General Presbyter and Stated Clerk (the GP and Stated Clerk attend all General Assembly meetings).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;During that time a question was directed to the Stated Clerk that went something like this:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;“If Evergreen Presbyterian Church (I asked the question) found a candidate for the office of elder or deacon and that person was a practicing, non-repentant gay or lesbian person, and if after meeting with the session the session determined that the person was qualified to serve as an elder or deacon and that the session would accept the scrupling of the G-6.0106b, could that person be ordained as an elder or deacon if elected by the congregation?”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Stated Clerk answered, “Yes.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Follow up questions were very specific and asked if “local option” concerning ordination was now the rule of the day in the PCUSA and again the Stated Clerk answered, “Yes.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Stated Clerk based her answers on the new Authoritative Interpretation that was passed by the General Assembly AND Opinion #22 issued by Constitution Services of the PCUSA.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The path forward for this pastor and blog are now as clear as mud.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I will resume tomorrow (July 17&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt;) with my series on options for moving forward that are being put forward by various groups within the PCUSA.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The series will conclude on or before Wednesday, July 23&lt;sup&gt;rd&lt;/sup&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I will then be taking a couple of days of planned vacation before leaving on a mission trip with our youth group.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The blog will be “silent” for a period of time while I prayer and fast while seeking the Lords direction for my life, ministry, future with the PCUSA, etc.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I have been studying and preaching from Nehemiah for the past two months.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;When Nehemiah was confronted with the abysmal state of &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;Jerusalem&lt;/st1:City&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt; and its walls he spent four months in prayer and fasting.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;There are some similarities between Nehemiah’s time and today:&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;ul style="margin-top: 0in;" type="disc"&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Like      the Israelites of old, the PCUSA had moved away from following God’s      commands for holiness.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This call      for holiness is found in the Old and New Testaments.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Nehemiah      referred to the Israelites as “stiff necked” and “disobedient” people—it      appears as though the PCUSA is a “stiff necked” and “disobedient” people.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;The      greatness and grandeur of the PCUSA is long gone—like &lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Jerusalem&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:City&gt; of old. &lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;There are some major differences between Nehemiah’s time and today:&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 39pt; text-indent: -0.25in;"&gt;&lt;!--[if !supportLists]--&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Symbol;"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;·&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!--[endif]--&gt;There was only one temple—located in &lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Jerusalem&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:City&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 39pt; text-indent: -0.25in;"&gt;&lt;!--[if !supportLists]--&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Symbol;"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;·&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!--[endif]--&gt;The people of God were in captivity in a foreign land due to their unfaithfulness to God.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 39pt; text-indent: -0.25in;"&gt;&lt;!--[if !supportLists]--&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Symbol;"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;·&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!--[endif]--&gt;Jesus had yet to come to earth to provide redemption for our sins through his death on the cross and resurrection from the dead.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 39pt; text-indent: -0.25in;"&gt;&lt;!--[if !supportLists]--&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Symbol;"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;·&lt;span style="font-family: &amp;quot;Times New Roman&amp;quot;; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;!--[endif]--&gt;The PCUSA &lt;b style=""&gt;IS NOT&lt;/b&gt; the Church—it is a single denomination, and a rather small one at that.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 3pt;"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 3pt;"&gt;During this time of prayer and fasting I will be seeking God’s direction for my life, ministry and church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I have no idea of how long this process will take.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I have no idea of what God is going to call me to.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;God may call me to stay within the PCUSA to keep up the fight for biblical faithfulness.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;God may call me to say within the PCUSA as a part of a “faithful remnant.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;God may call me to stay in the PCUSA but not as a pastor.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;God may call me to leave the PCUSA and the pastoral ministry.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;God may call me to leave the PCUSA and remain in the pastoral ministry within another denomination.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;God may call me to leave the PCUSA and remain in the pastoral ministry in a non-denominational church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;God may call me to a new and different type of ministry that is not in a local congregation.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 3pt;"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 3pt;"&gt;On the lighter side, last August and September, I had a photo of one of my dahlias each day on my blog.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Yes, I confess that I am a dahlia nut.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I have approximately 750 dahlia plants in my garden (135 different varieties and 185 new seedlings for trying to develop new varieties of dahlia).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;When I return from the mission trip to &lt;st1:state st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Alaska&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:State&gt; I will post a photo of a different dahlia or two each day (Monday-Friday) to brighten your day (and mine).&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 3pt;"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 3pt;"&gt;Why the silence?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Our Presbytery, at its last meeting, approved a process to deal with churches and/or pastors that are thinking about leaving the PCUSA.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This document has a nice “pastoral” flavor but it also has some significant punitive possibilities in it.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;At this time, I am not planning on leaving the PCUSA!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I have been warned (by a colleague in a significant position in the Presbytery) to make sure that I (or my church) do, or say, nothing that would cause the new policy to be put into motion.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It could be possible for me to unintentionally write something at would trigger the new policy to be put in effect if I were to blog during this time of discernment.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;For the sake of my ministry, my family and my church, it is a risk that I cannot, and must not take.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 3pt;"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 3pt;"&gt;So…&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 3pt;"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 3pt;"&gt;I will be back tomorrow and continue to look at options for moving forward in light of the 2008 General Assembly.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Tomorrow’s post will look at Presbyterian Global Fellowship and their plan for moving forward.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-8855815608190335396?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/8855815608190335396/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=8855815608190335396' title='17 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8855815608190335396'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8855815608190335396'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/07/broken-heart.html' title='Broken Heart…'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>17</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-4814271529362152482</id><published>2008-07-15T09:43:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-07-15T09:44:25.277-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Options for Moving Forward – Presbyterians for Renewal.</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;The PCUSA is in a mess!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;How are we to move forward?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Various groups within the PCUSA have spoken on this topic.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Many faithful Presbyterians do not have the time or desire to find out what the various groups are saying.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It is my intention to give a “best effort” to accurately present the “way forward” presented by the various groups with in the PCUSA.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We will begin this process by looking at Presbyterians for Renewal (PFR).  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;PFR is a renewal group that has its roots in the Covenant Fellowship of Presbyterians—an evangelical renewal group in the former Southern church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;PFR’s strategy prior to 2008 has been characterized as “stay, fight, win.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;PFR has been great at organizing folks at the Presbytery level to defeat (or pass) amendments to the constitution.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;PFR was also very active in trying to organize General Assembly commissioners for biblical causes.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.ga2008.com/docs/contending_for_the_faith_2008.pdf"&gt;PFR’s plan&lt;/a&gt; for moving forward is two pronged:&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;ol style="margin-top: 0in;" start="1" type="1"&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;A call      to biblical faithfulness.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;A      restructuring of the denomination.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ol&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The call to biblical faithfulness is a rallying call to Presbyterians to VOTE AGAINST the amendment that would remove G-6.0106b from the constitution.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The call would also include an effort to defeat the proposed changes to the Heidelberg Confession.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;There is also a strong “repentance” component to this section.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The repentance recognizes that we have all sinned in dealing with this issue.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The restructuring of the denomination would change the way in which churches are formed into presbyteries and synods.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This restructuring would be based on non-geographic presbyteries and synods (called the “two synod” model).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The two synod model would have the two main branches in the PCUSA be divided into two synods:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;one holding at traditional, high view of scripture and biblical interpretation and holding to the church’s historic stance on ordination as summed up by G-6.0106b, and, one synod holding a progressive view of scripture and its interpretation and holding a view on ordination standards that would allow practicing, non-repentant gay, lesbians, bisexual and transgender persons to be ordained as Ministers of the Word and Sacrament, Elders and Deacons.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Congregations would affiliate with like-minded presbyteries within one of the synods.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;PFR will only advocate the restructuring of the denomination if such restructuring can be accomplished with theologically sound reasoning and that such a move would be practical.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Over the coming month, PFR will be studying to see if the above requirement can be met.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;My Assessment of the PFR response to GA:&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The first prong of PFR’s response is the stay, fight, win strategy.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We have been following this strategy for 30+ years.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Eventually, enough biblically faithful Presbyterians will leave the denomination to make this strategy fail.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I believe that the Presbyteries will defeat the proposed amendment to remove G-6.0106b from the constitution.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;In future years I am not so confident that the votes will be there to defeat such proposed changes.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I am confident that the proposed changes to the Heidelberg Confession will be defeated because it takes 2/3 of the Presbyteries to vote in favor of a change to the &lt;i style=""&gt;Book of Confessions&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The second prong of PFR’s response is the two synod model.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I believe that the two synod model is based on faulty theology.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;How can one group believe that homosexual intercourse is a sin and yet stay within a denomination that has a major portion of the denomination that actively affirms and teaches that homosexual intercourse is a gift from God?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The two synod model is a worldly solution for churches that are afraid to stand up for biblical authority.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Such a model cannot be defended using scripture.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-4814271529362152482?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/4814271529362152482/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=4814271529362152482' title='6 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/4814271529362152482'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/4814271529362152482'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/07/options-for-moving-forward.html' title='Options for Moving Forward – Presbyterians for Renewal.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>6</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-7610129656996561707</id><published>2008-07-14T16:15:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-07-14T16:20:05.982-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Nehemiah 9 and the PCUSA.</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;The Old Testament is filled with examples of God’s people turning away from God.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Old Testament is filled with examples of God disciplining his people for turning away from him.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The judgment of God was not something trivial or easy.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The punishment for not going into the Holy Land as instructed was &lt;a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=6&amp;amp;chapter=5&amp;amp;verse=6&amp;amp;version=31&amp;amp;context=verse"&gt;40 years of wandering&lt;/a&gt; in the desert until every adult that voted against going into the &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Holy Land&lt;/st1:place&gt; died.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;In &lt;a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%2021:4-8;&amp;amp;version=31;"&gt;Numbers 21&lt;/a&gt; we read the account of God’s people speaking against God and Moses—so God set venomous snakes to the people and many people died.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The northern and southern kingdoms did things that displeased God so God brought judgment on the two kingdoms.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The northern kingdom fell, its inhabitants we taken into captivity and dispersed throughout the victor’s kingdom and were never heard from again (the lost ten tribes of &lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Israel&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:country-region&gt;).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The southern kingdom was conquered, its inhabitants taken into captivity in &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;Babylon&lt;/st1:City&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;.  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;What would lead a person to think that God will not bring judgment upon the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) for its actions?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Or, maybe that is what God has been doing for the past 30+ years.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Think for a moment, those denominations that have been moving away from the Bible and seeking to ordain practicing, non-repentant lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) persons have been experiencing catastrophic membership losses for 30+ years.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;God’s judgment?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The denominations moving in this direction are in Europe, the &lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;United States&lt;/st1:country-region&gt; and &lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Canada&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:country-region&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Most churches in &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Europe&lt;/st1:place&gt; sit empty.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;God’s judgment?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Episcopal Church in the &lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;United States&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:country-region&gt; is being ostracized by most of the world wide Anglican Communion.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;God’s judgment?&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Nehemiah%209;&amp;amp;version=31;"&gt;Nehemiah 9&lt;/a&gt; is a brief record of the disobedience of God’s people.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Here are some of the ways the Israelites are described:&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;ul style="margin-top: 0in;" type="disc"&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;Stiff-necked&lt;/i&gt;:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Has the PCUSA been stiff-necked.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;For thirty years God has been keeping      the denomination from ordaining LGBT persons; yet, at every General      Assembly meeting the issue comes up again.&lt;span style=""&gt;       &lt;/span&gt;Stiff-necked people?&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;Do not obey your commands&lt;/i&gt;:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;God has given very specific commands      concerning worshipping other God and about homosexuality (both male and      female versions).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;A gay wedding was      done at the More Light Presbyterians official dinner at during the      Assembly by a Presbyterian pastor.&lt;span style=""&gt;       &lt;/span&gt;Do not obey your commands?&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;Rebelled against you&lt;/i&gt;:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;(see the two bullet points above)&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;They put your law behind their backs&lt;/i&gt;:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Picture this—a child comes into the      kitchen and grabs a cookie from the cookie jar even though his mother has      told him not to.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Mom walks into the      kitchen.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The child immediately      places the cookie behind his back and pretends that nothing has      happened.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;That is what this past      General Assembly has done with God’s word and law—it pretended that they      don’t exist or have meaning.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;That section of Nehemiah concludes with these words:&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;“But see, we are slaves today, slaves in the land you gave our ancestors so they could eat its fruit and the other good things it produces.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Because of our sins, its abundant harvest goes to the kings you have placed over us.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They rule over our bodies and our cattle as they please.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We are in great distress.” (Nehemiah 9:36-37)&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Nehemiah’s words ring true today—we are in great distress!&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-7610129656996561707?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/7610129656996561707/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=7610129656996561707' title='1 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/7610129656996561707'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/7610129656996561707'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/07/nehemiah-9-and-pcusa.html' title='Nehemiah 9 and the PCUSA.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>1</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-8936785711715495793</id><published>2008-07-12T22:28:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-07-12T22:29:21.796-07:00</updated><title type='text'>General Assembly Final Thoughts</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;My last post ended with “The PCUSA as we know it is dead.”&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Reasons for this statement:&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;ul style="margin-top: 0in;" type="disc"&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;The      constitution (&lt;i style=""&gt;Book of Order&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i style=""&gt;Book of Confessions&lt;/i&gt;) is what holds      us together as a denomination.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;More      Light Presbyterians openly disobey the constitution.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Other progressive Presbyterian groups,      pastors and churches openly disobey the constitution.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Pastors      openly disobey the constitution and perform same sex marriages.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;The      General Assembly openly disregarded that GA Permanent Judicial      Commission’s &lt;i style=""&gt;Bush&lt;/i&gt; ruling—openly      trying to circumvent the constitutional requirement of G-6.0106b.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;The      recent Advisory paper by the Stated Clerk’s office states that local      option for ordination is now the rule of the day—even before the      Presbyteries have voted on the proposed amendments to the constitution.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I find it fascinating that while the PCUSA does not function by its own rules it is quick to condemn the Evangelical Presbyterian Church for accepting congregations who can no long, in good conscience, stay in the PCUSA.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;How dare our denomination condemn another denomination when our denomination plays fast and easy with its own rules.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Additionally, I find it comical that the Assembly voted to build a war chest of millions of dollars to fight congregations who want to join the EPC; and then, at the Assembly said that congregations looking to the leave the PCUSA should be treated with grace.&lt;span style=""&gt;   &lt;/span&gt;I take this final action as the progressive Assembly saying to evangelical/orthodox Presbyterians “Don’t let the door hit you in the rear as you leave.”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-8936785711715495793?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/8936785711715495793/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=8936785711715495793' title='2 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8936785711715495793'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8936785711715495793'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/07/general-assembly-final-thoughts.html' title='General Assembly Final Thoughts'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>2</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-9034094201499064324</id><published>2008-07-12T22:09:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-07-12T22:10:46.940-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Has the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) “jumped the shark?” Or, to put it another way, Was this past General Assembly the Assembly of Heresy? (Part ???)</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.mlp.org/article.php?story=20080623190434106"&gt;More Light Presbyterians headline&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;“Kikuchi and Wiesner Wed at GA Dinner.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The article goes on to say that the two were married at the conclusion of the More Light Presbyterians Dinner at General Assembly on June 21.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The marriage was legal in the State of &lt;st1:state st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;California&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:State&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Here are the problems:  &lt;ul style="margin-top: 0in;" type="disc"&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;More      Light Presbyterians ARE PRESBYTERIANS and are suppose to live by      denominational rules.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;The      PCUSA defines “marriage” as between one man and one woman—not between two      people of the same gender.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;The      marriage was conducted by a Presbyterian pastor—who knew that she could be      charged with an offence by the denomination.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;The      General Assembly meeting was just beginning—no action had been taken on      Amendment B, on the attempt to redefine “marriage” or any new      Authoritative Interpretation. &lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;This marriage was an IN YOUR FACE to every Presbyterian.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This marriage was an IN YOUR FACE to the delegates who had traveled from across the nation to debate issues.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This marriage was an IN YOUR FACE to every Presbyterian who tries to do things by the rules.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;So what was the result of this marriage?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I can find no reference to the Assembly condemning this action—there is only silence.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The PCUSA as we know it is dead.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-9034094201499064324?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/9034094201499064324/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=9034094201499064324' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/9034094201499064324'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/9034094201499064324'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/07/has-presbyterian-church-usa-jumped_12.html' title='Has the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) “jumped the shark?” Or, to put it another way, Was this past General Assembly the Assembly of Heresy? (Part ???)'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-8330868594666949482</id><published>2008-07-10T22:41:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-07-10T22:42:45.965-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Has the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) “jumped the shark?” Or, to put it another way, Was this past General Assembly the Assembly of Heresy? (Part 5)</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;Hold the presses!!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;A pronouncement from Constitutional Services of the PCUSA puts a new twist on yesterday’s post.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.pcusa.org/constitutionalservices/ad-op/note22.htm"&gt;Constitutional Service said&lt;/a&gt;:  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="bodytext"&gt;&lt;b style=""&gt;The 218th General Assembly also adopted (Item 05-12) a new Authoritative Interpretation of G-6.0108:&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="bodytext"&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;b style=""&gt;…the requirements of G-6.0108 … apply equally to all ordination standards of the Presbyterian Church (&lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;U.S.A.&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:country-region&gt;).  Section G-6.0108 requires examining bodies to give prayerful and careful consideration, on an individual, case-by-case basis, to any departure from an ordination standard in matters of belief or practice that a candidate may declare during examination.  However, the examining body is not required to accept a departure from standards and cannot excuse a candidate’s inability to perform the constitutional functions unique to his or her office (such as administration of the sacraments).&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;b style=""&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="bodytext"&gt;&lt;b style=""&gt;We believe this modifies the 2008 GAPJC decision of &lt;em&gt;Bush v. Presbytery of Pittsburgh&lt;/em&gt;, in that the scrupling of either belief or practice is now allowed. The effect of this action is to remind ordaining bodies that they bear the responsibility for determining whether any particular standard (including those described in G-6.0106b) will be a bar to that particular candidate’s ordination/installation. This Authoritative Interpretation preserves the historic right of sessions and presbyteries to determine their membership; all these decisions, however, continue to be subject to review by a higher governing body.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;This changes everything!!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Constitutional Services had in effect declared that local option is now in the rule of the day!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Heaven help the PCUSA…&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-8330868594666949482?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/8330868594666949482/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=8330868594666949482' title='1 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8330868594666949482'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8330868594666949482'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/07/has-presbyterian-church-usa-jumped_7959.html' title='Has the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) “jumped the shark?” Or, to put it another way, Was this past General Assembly the Assembly of Heresy? (Part 5)'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>1</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-5603242959511823218</id><published>2008-07-10T09:37:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-07-10T09:41:50.066-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Has the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) “jumped the shark?” Or, to put it another way, Was this past General Assembly the Assembly of Heresy? (Part 4)</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The recent General Assembly of the PCUSA made some troubling decisions.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Today I will move on to the horrible move by the Assembly.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;b style=""&gt;Error #3.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The General Assembly tried to do an “end run” around the recent General Assembly Permanent Judicial Commission (GAPJC) &lt;a href="http://www.pcusa.org/gapjc/decisions/pjc21810.pdf"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;Bush&lt;/i&gt; decision&lt;/a&gt; by adopting a new Authoritative Interpretation on G-6.0108.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;A little history is needed to understand what the Assembly did or didn’t do.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Since &lt;a href="http://www.pcusa.org/101/101-homosexual.htm"&gt;1978 Definitive Guidance&lt;/a&gt; the PCUSA has held that “homosexuality is a sin” and is not God’s “wish for humanity.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Assemblies in 1980 and 1993 affirmed this stance on homosexuality.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;G-6.0106b was added to the constitution through the amendment process to help clarify the issue.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;In 2006 the General Assembly tried to change the Authoritative Interpretation but adopting the Peace, Unity and Purity (PUP) report.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;That report gave Presbyteries the right to determine whether a candidate was qualified to be ordained as a Minster of the Word and Sacrament.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;A person could “scruple” something that they did not agree with within the PCUSA—including G-0106b (the section on fidelity and chastity).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This action caused wide-spread anger in the denomination.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The action was viewed as doing away with Amendment b without the action going out to the Presbyteries for their approval.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The issued ended up going through the church courts.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The GAPJC &lt;i style=""&gt;Bush&lt;/i&gt; decision ruled that Amendment b COULD NOT be scrupled because it is a requirement that is in the constitution.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;“&lt;i style=""&gt;The 218&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt; General Assembly (2008) affirms the authoritative interpretation of G-6.0108 approved by the 217&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt; General Assembly (2006).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Further, the 218&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt; General Assembly (2008), pursuant to G-13.0112, interprets the requirements of G-6.0108 [to] apply equally to all ordination standards of the Presbyterian Church (&lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;U.S.A.&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:country-region&gt;).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Section G-6.0108 requires examining bodies to give prayerful and careful consideration, on an individual, case-by-case basis, to any departure from an ordination standard in matters of belief or practice that a candidate may declare during examination.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;However, the examining body is not required to accept a departure from standards, and cannot excuse a candidate’s inability to perform the constitutional functions unique to his or her office (such as administration of the sacraments).”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;                                                         &lt;/span&gt;-218&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt; General Assembly&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Problem #1:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This decision is a slap in the face of Permanent Judicial Commission.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The commission had recently ruled that requirements that are specifically in the constitution CANNOT be waved.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Period.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;End of story.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The moderator or the stated clerk should have ruled that this was out of order.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The church courts had just ruled on the issue.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Problem #2:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This decision ushers in a time of confusion for the denomination.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Those in favor of LGBT ordination are saying that Presbyteries and Session can now set aside, on and individual basis, any area where a candidate for ordination departs from the constitutional requirement for ordination.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The church courts have already ruled that such actions are illegal.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Once again the denomination will be in a state of confusion until a case works its way through the church courts (it will take about two years for this to happen).&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Problem #3:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This decision will have a cost to time and money for our denomination and Presbyteries.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Lawyers will be hired.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;People will travel to attend court.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This is a needless expenditure of limited resources.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Problem #4:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This decision does not overturn the &lt;i style=""&gt;Bush &lt;/i&gt;decision.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Yet, churches, Sessions and Presbyteries will act is though it does.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Several months ago my step-mother was admitted to the hospital.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;She was one sick lady.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The doctors found that she had pneumonia, a &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrsa"&gt;MRSA&lt;/a&gt; infection in her lungs and a MRSA infection in her blood.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;She could have survived any one of these health issues.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The combination of these three health problems was more than her body could handle and my step-mother died after almost two months in intensive care.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The new authoritative interpretation adopted by this past General Assembly will not kill the church—by itself.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;What it did was to give an already troubled denomination one more extremely divisive and unnecessary issue to deal with.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-5603242959511823218?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/5603242959511823218/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=5603242959511823218' title='1 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/5603242959511823218'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/5603242959511823218'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/07/has-presbyterian-church-usa-jumped_10.html' title='Has the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) “jumped the shark?” Or, to put it another way, Was this past General Assembly the Assembly of Heresy? (Part 4)'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>1</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-1038696770396034809</id><published>2008-07-09T09:26:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-07-09T09:28:38.597-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Has the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) “jumped the shark?” Or, to put it another way, Was this past General Assembly the Assembly of Heresy? (Part 3)</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The recent General Assembly of the PCUSA made some troubling decisions.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;In previous posts on this topic I introduced the meaning of “jumping the shark” and I looked at the most serious error of the Assembly.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Today we will look at the second error.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;b style=""&gt;Error #2.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The &lt;i style=""&gt;Book of Order&lt;/i&gt; of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) contains the following section:&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;“Those who are called to office in the church are to lead a life in obedience to Scripture and in conformity to the historic confessional standards of the church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Among these standards is the requirement to live either in fidelity within the covenant of marriage between a man and a woman (W-4.9001)), or chastity in singleness.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;(G-6.0106b)&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The section of the &lt;i style=""&gt;Book of Order&lt;/i&gt; quoted above has been referred to as the “fidelity and chastity amendment” or “amendment b.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The removal of this section from the &lt;i style=""&gt;Book of Order&lt;/i&gt; is a serious error.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Readers of this blog who are not Presbyterian need to understand what the Assembly actually did with G-6.0106b.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;A General Assembly CANNOT remove a section (larger or small) from the &lt;i style=""&gt;Book of Order&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;An Assembly can vote to removed (or add a section) and then that action goes out to the Presbyteries to be ratified (over 50% of the Presbyteries must vote in favor of the change).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The recent General Assembly voted to remove G-6.0106b from the &lt;i style=""&gt;Book of Order&lt;/i&gt;, replacing it with new language:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;“Those who are called to ordained service in the church, by their assent to the constitutional questions for ordination and installation (W-4.4003), pledge themselves to live lives obedient to Jesus Christ the Head of the Church, striving to follow where he leads through the witness of the Scriptures, and to understand the scriptures through the instruction of the Confessions.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;In so doing, they declare their fidelity to the standards of the Church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Each governing body charged with examination for ordination and/or installation (G-14.0240 and G-14.0450) establishes the candidate’s sincere efforts to adhere to these standards.”&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I recently heard someone ask, “Why has the Presbyterian Church been so concerned about the ordination of homosexuals for the past thirty years and not before that?”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;An aunt who is not a Christian recently told me, “There is not a single place in the Bible that calls homosexuality a sin.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Both of these people show how little knowledge there is about the Bible, sexuality and church history.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;It is true that the PCUSA has been fighting over the ordination of practicing, non-repentant lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (from now on referred to as “LGBT”) persons since 1978—that was the year that the denomination tried to for the first time to ordain LGBT persons.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Presbyteries defeated the proposed change and have done so every time it has come up since then.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;What changed in the 60s and 70s?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;What changed is the sexual revolution!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Sexual promiscuity had always been a part of American culture but for the first time it was become “mainstream.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The climate for change was ushered in when the church moved away from a high view of scripture AND much of society embraced a more open view of sex, marriage and sexual orientation.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The church did not fight over the ordination of LGBT persons prior to 1978 because the church and society would never have stood for the ordination of LGBT persons.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Since coming to Evergreen Presbyterian Church twelve years ago, the General Assembly has tried on several occasions to remove Amendment b from the constitution.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;On the first occasion I taught a class of the Bible and Sexuality.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I was shocked and amazed at how many long-time Presbyterians had no idea of what the Bible actually says about sex (homosexual or heterosexual).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;These fine people had formed strong opinions based on human experience.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I was further amazed at how many were willing to disregard what scripture had to say of the topic—based totally on human experience.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;It is easy to see why my aunt was misinformed about what the Bible says about homosexuality.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;How can a person who never goes to church or Bible study be expected to know what the Bible says about sexuality when those within the church don’t know what it says or are willing to blatantly ignore what it says?&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The Bible has a lot to say about sex.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The book of Song of Songs (a.k.a. – Song of Solomon or Canticles) sits on the borderline between erotic and X rated.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Bible is filled with instances of lust, love and rape.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Bible condones certain sexual practices and condemns other sexual practices.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Two chapters that focus on sexual practices that are condemned are &lt;a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2018:22;&amp;amp;version=31;"&gt;Leviticus 18&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2020:13;&amp;amp;version=31;"&gt;Leviticus 20&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Leviticus 18: 20 says, “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Leviticus 20 says, “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The New Testament continues the prohibition of same sex intercourse.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%201:26-27;&amp;amp;version=31;"&gt;Romans 1:26-27&lt;/a&gt; says, “Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%206&amp;amp;version=31"&gt;1 Corinthians 6:9-10&lt;/a&gt; says, “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;kingdom&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt; of &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;God&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Do not be deceived:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;kingdom&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt; of &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;God&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;.”&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The same theme is present in all of these texts—same gender sexual intercourse is wrong in the eyes of God.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;“Detestable” (in the Leviticus 18 passage) means that the practice is so horrible that God will not even look upon it.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;“Detestable” is an extremely harsh word in biblical Hebrew—this cannot be ignored.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I see the 1 Corinthians passage is a passage of hope—forgiveness.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;There are times when we are “greedy” or “slanderers” or anything else on that list.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;When we confess our sin we receive forgiveness.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This is what G-6.0106b is all about.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It is not just about gay sex—it is about confession of sin and forgiveness.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The problem is that those who believe that same gender sexual intercourse is acceptable to God do not see that type of sexual expression as a sin, or that forgiveness is needed.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Those who believe that same gender sexual intercourse is acceptable to God are faced with two possible ways to justify their beliefs:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;discredit (explain away) the biblical texts or ignore the texts.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;For years and years those who are in favor of LGBT ordination tried to explain away the prohibition texts.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;That battle strategy has proven to be ineffective on all but a very few people.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The newer tactic is to ignore the texts.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;You might have heard the argument of “we ordain people who are divorced” or “we ordain women” or “we selectively enforce the things that are prohibited in scripture.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It is s beyond the scope of this post to cover these additional topics.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Let me just say that divorced person who do not repent should not be ordained.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;As for the ordination of women, God appointed Deborah to be a judge.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Enough said.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The main issue is repentance and forgiveness!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;So, why is removing G-6.0106b such a big deal?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;First, that section was placed in the constitution because many years ago the GAPJC said that the Authoritative Interpretation of 1978 was not enough—it needed to be in the constitution.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;So, various Presbyteries submitted the text of Amendment b, it was passed by the General Assembly and ratified by the Presbyteries.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Second, when a Presbytery or Session ordains a person they do so for the entire church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;There are Sessions and Presbyteries that do not believe that sexual intercourse outside of the bounds of one man and one woman who are married is a sin.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Third, sex is a BIG DEAL!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The sex drive is one of the strongest drives a person has.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;In many ways, sex impacts most areas of our lives.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;There is so much “worldly” confusion about sex that the church needs to be clear about what it teaches and believes.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Fourth, the Bible is clear on its prohibition of same gender sexual intercourse.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Fifth, Amendment b goes way beyond same gender sexual intercourse—it deals with all sin and forgiveness.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Amendment b helps the church deal with pastors, elders and deacons who have “affairs.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Amendment b helps us to deal with candidates for the ministry who are “sleeping around.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Amendment b helps us to deal with pastors who are practicing alcoholics or thieves.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Amendment b deals with sin, confession and forgiveness. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-1038696770396034809?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/1038696770396034809/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=1038696770396034809' title='3 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/1038696770396034809'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/1038696770396034809'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/07/has-presbyterian-church-usa-jumped_09.html' title='Has the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) “jumped the shark?” Or, to put it another way, Was this past General Assembly the Assembly of Heresy? (Part 3)'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>3</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-5696784117374303391</id><published>2008-07-03T10:13:00.001-07:00</published><updated>2008-07-03T10:13:41.165-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Has the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) “jumped the shark?” Or, to put it another way, Was this past General Assembly the Assembly of Heresy? (Part 2)</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;b style=""&gt;Error #1.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Yesterday, I started looking at the errors made by the recent General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The most significant error was in what the Assembly did regarding our interfaith relationship with those who practice the religion of Islam.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Before going any further, I must admit that I am not an expert in this area; however, I am more familiar with this area than probably 90%-95% of Presbyterians.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;My study of the world’s religions began at &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Sheldon&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt; &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Jackson&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt; &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;College&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt; as a student, it continued at &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Washington&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt; &lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;State&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt; &lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;University&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;At those institutions I studied under professors who were well versed in the world’s religions.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;One of the professors was a Christian and one had left the Christian faith and believed that all religions lead to God or high consciousness.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;My assumptions about religion, faith, Christianity, salvation, God, etc, were profoundly challenged. &lt;span style=""&gt; &lt;/span&gt;My study of the world’s religions continued throughout my life.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;As a faculty member at &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Sheldon&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt;  &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Jackson&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt; &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;College&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt; I taught the class on the World’s Religions every semester for five years.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Adherents of many of the religions we covered took the class.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I sought to be unbiased in my presentation of each religion and was commended by those who practiced religions other than Christianity for teaching the doctrines of their faith in a fair and unbiased way.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;If anything is going to bring the wrath of God upon the PCUSA it will be this past General Assembly’s actions on interfaith relations with Muslims.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;As a Christian and a Presbyterian pastor I call on all Presbyterians to repent of the sin which our General Assembly is leading us into.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;span class="sup"&gt;At the end of yesterday’s posting, I asked my readers to look at the following scripture passages:&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;ul style="margin-top: 0in;" type="disc"&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;&lt;span class="sup"&gt;2 Kings 17:37-38&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;&lt;span class="sup"&gt;Jeremiah 13:10&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;&lt;span class="sup"&gt;Jeremiah 44&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;&lt;span class="sup"&gt;Numbers 25:1-4&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;&lt;span class="sup"&gt;Judges 2:12&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;&lt;span class="sup"&gt;2 Kings 17:38&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;span class="sup"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Scripture is very clear about the worship of God.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We ARE NOT to bow down and worship other gods—PERIOD!!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;All religions do not worship the same God.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;If a person believes that all religions worship the same God then he/she is not a Christian—that person may be a “Presbyterian.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The god that the Muslims worship is not the God that Christians worship.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Do your homework!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Read the Bible!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Read the Koran.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Read the teachings of Muhammad.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The two faiths are mutually exclusive.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;“though we hold differing understandings of how God has been revealed to humankind, the PC(USA) affirms that, as children of this loving God, we share the commandments of love for God and neighbor, the requirement to care for the poor."&lt;span style=""&gt;    &lt;/span&gt;(2008 General Assembly of the PCUSA)&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The statement passed by the Assembly is heresy!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The statement begins by inferring (if not explicitly stating) that God (Yahweh) has revealed God’s self to Christians and Muslims—we just understand it differently.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;“This loving God” again implies that we worship the same God.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Heresy, once again.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Our different faiths may indeed call us to love the god of our faith—but Christians are called to love Yahweh and Muslims are called to love a different God (Allah).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Our faiths may call us to care for the poor.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;However, there are different gods calling us to these actions.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;There is only one true God—Yahweh!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;"Practices might include participation in sacred and holy observances in each other’s traditions."&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;(2008 General Assembly)&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The Assembly calls upon us to take part in each other’s “practices.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Taking part in the sacred practices of a god other than Yahweh is totally forbidden in scripture.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;God is a jealous God and is swift in his punishment of the worshipping of other gods.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;(Note:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;a Muslim that takes his/her faith seriously would never worship a god other than Allah, as revealed in the Koran.)&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The General Assembly is actually encouraging Presbyterians to bow down and worship a different god.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Assembly did not say to “go and observe” Muslims as they practice their sacred events.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Assembly used the word “participation.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;To “participate” is to “take part in.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;A person that participates in a Muslim sacred (worship) event may say, “I am not really worshipping Allah.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;That person is only fooling themselves—they are not fooling God.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Look at scripture and see what God did to those who worship other gods.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;“encourage congregations of these faiths to celebrate religious holidays together, setting aside days of worship during which there can be congregational suppers, and dialogue groups.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;(2008 General Assembly)&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Does this General Assembly expect me to celebrate the birth of Muhammad—someone who leads people away from Jesus and eternal life?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Does this Assembly expect me to celebrate Ramadan?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Does this Assembly expect a Muslim to come and celebrate the resurrection of Jesus from the dead, the birth of Christ, Pentecost, etc?&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;It would be nice to sit down and eat with Muslims but most Christians do not follow the Muslim dietary restrictions.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We could do it, though.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We should sit down and dialogue—talk.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We can work together to fight hunger, gang violence, terrorism, racism, discrimination, etc.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It would be good to dialogue, but it should be done with the realization that we are of two distinct, separate faiths.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;What will happen to the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) if we follow through on what this past General Assembly has called us to do?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I don’t pretend to know what God will do.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;But, I do know this—it won’t be pretty!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;God’s judgment is harsh.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Read your Bible.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;See for yourself.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Fall on your knees and pray for the PCUSA.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-5696784117374303391?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/5696784117374303391/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=5696784117374303391' title='4 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/5696784117374303391'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/5696784117374303391'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/07/has-presbyterian-church-usa-jumped_03.html' title='Has the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) “jumped the shark?” Or, to put it another way, Was this past General Assembly the Assembly of Heresy? (Part 2)'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>4</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-5268121467232530288</id><published>2008-07-02T15:40:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-07-02T15:57:02.367-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Has the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) “jumped the shark?” Or, to put it another way, Was this past General Assembly the Assembly of Heresy?</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;Those who are familiar with popular culture will be familiar with the phrase “&lt;a href="http://www.jumptheshark.com/index.jspa"&gt;jump the shark&lt;/a&gt;.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jump-the-shark"&gt;Urbandictionary.com’s&lt;/a&gt; first definition of “jump the shark” says, “Origin of this phrase comes from a Happy Days episode where the Fonz jumped a shark on waterskis.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Thus was labeled the lowest point of the show.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The second definition says, “The precise moment when you know a program, band, actor, politician, or other public figure has taken a turn for the worse, gone downhill, become irreversibly bad, is unredeemable, etc.; the moment you realize decay has set in.”  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The phrase “jumping the shark” has been applied in many areas.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Krispy Kreme donuts had a good thing going.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Their stock had shot up through the roof.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Their stores were few and far between.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;People would drive hundreds of miles to stand in line for Krispy Kreme donuts.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Several years ago a group from our church to the only Krispy Kreme donuts store in &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Washington&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt;  &lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;State&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;   &lt;/span&gt;Going to Krispy Kreme was an “event.”&lt;span style=""&gt;   &lt;/span&gt;The night we visited Krispy Kreme there were several groups of high school students in their prom dresses, tuxes and limousines at Krispy Kreme.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Krispy Kreme had a good thing going with not-for-profit organizations.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;These organization would order dozens and dozens of donuts to sell out along side the highways and byways of &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Washington&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt; &lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;State&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Most people’s first experience of a Krispy Kreme donut was of a cold donut that was cooked at 3:00 a.m.!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Krispy Kreme jumped the shark when it opened so many stores.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;There are currently two Krispy Kreme stores within fifteen minutes of my house.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Krispy Kreme stores sit virtually empty.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The stock value plummeted. &lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The Anglican Church jumped the shark when the Episcopal Church in the &lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;United States&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:country-region&gt; consecrated a non-celibate gay bishop.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This one event has caused irreparable damage to the Anglican Communion.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Conservative Anglicans just wrapped up the Global Anglican Future Conference (&lt;a href="http://www.gafcon.org/"&gt;GAFCON&lt;/a&gt;).&lt;span style=""&gt;   &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/23/religion"&gt;Archbishop Peter Akinola&lt;/a&gt;, Primate of Nigeria, said there must be “unavoidable realignment in the communion to rescue the communion from where we are.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He went on to say, "A sizeable part of the Communion are in error and not a few are apostate; is the Communion correctable from within or must it be from without?"  A major shift in the Anglican Communion is taking place.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Was this past General Assembly meeting the “jump the shark” event in the life of the PCUSA?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Was this the Assembly meeting that will forever change the denomination?&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;What is heresy?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Oxford English Dictionary defines heresy as a “theological or religious opinion or doctrine maintained in opposition, or held to be contrary, to the Roman Catholic or Orthodox doctrine of the Christian Church, or, by extension, to that of any church, creed, or religious system, considered as orthodox.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Several actions by this past General Assembly are very troubling.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Do any of these actions rise to the point of being called “heresy?”&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The Internet is ablaze with postings on this past General Assembly.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The folks at “higher headquarters” (a.k.a. – &lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Louisville&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:City&gt;) are in full damage control mode.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Yesterday I received a call from our General Presbyter – the first one in twelve years.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The GP is concerned about how pastors and churches are going to respond to the actions of the Assembly.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The you-know-what has hit the fan.&lt;span style=""&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The Book of Order says that “all synods and councils may err…” (G-1.0307)&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Christ’s followers are human—forgiven, but still human.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;General Assemblies have erred in the past and will undoubtedly err in the future.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;One safe guard against such error is that changes to the constitution have to be ratified by a majority of the presbyteries.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Such a balance of power helps to prevent the Assemblies from error.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;One very troubling aspect of this past Assembly is the way in which it bypassed the requirement to send things to the presbyteries to be ratified.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Enough of the preamble—on to the analysis.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;b style=""&gt;Error #1.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The recent General Assembly dealt with issues regarding the interfaith relationship between Presbyterians and Muslims.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It is important that we build &lt;i style=""&gt;appropriate&lt;/i&gt; relationships with those who are outside of the Christian faith.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Those relationships would include being respectful of the other religion while holding fast to the belief that salvation is found in Christ alone.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I would expect that any Muslim that truly believes the doctrines of his/her faith would hold fast to the teaching of Muhammad and the Koran.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It is possible to build a trusting relationship with those of a different religion without compromising the tenants of our faith.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) adopted a report that says, “though we hold differing understandings of how God has been revealed to humankind, the PC(USA) affirms that, as children of this loving God, we share the commandments of love for God and neighbor, the requirement to care for the poor." and, "Practices might include participation in sacred and holy observances in each other’s traditions."  and, &lt;span style=""&gt; &lt;/span&gt;“encourage congregations of these faiths to celebrate religious holidays together, setting aside days of worship during which there can be congregational suppers, and dialogue groups.”&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;To be fair to the Assembly, the most heretical sentence was removed from the report by the committee.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;However, the troubles with the report are of historic proportions.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;span class="sup"&gt;Before I comment further, please take the time to read the following biblical texts:&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;ul style="margin-top: 0in;" type="disc"&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;&lt;span class="sup"&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Kings%2017:37-38&amp;amp;version=31"&gt;2 Kings 17:37-38&lt;/a&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;&lt;span class="sup"&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah%2013:10;&amp;amp;version=31;"&gt;Jeremiah 13:10&lt;/a&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;&lt;span class="sup"&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah%2044;&amp;amp;version=31;"&gt;Jeremiah 44&lt;/a&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;&lt;span class="sup"&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%2025:1-4;&amp;amp;version=31;"&gt;Numbers 25:1-4&lt;/a&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;&lt;span class="sup"&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Judges%202:12;&amp;amp;version=31;"&gt;Judges 2:12&lt;/a&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;&lt;span class="sup"&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Kings%2017:38;&amp;amp;version=31;"&gt;2 Kings 17:38&lt;/a&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;span class="sup"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;span class="sup"&gt;I will comment further tomorrow after you have had an opportunity to read the listed biblical texts.&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-5268121467232530288?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/5268121467232530288/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=5268121467232530288' title='1 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/5268121467232530288'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/5268121467232530288'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/07/has-presbyterian-church-usa-jumped.html' title='Has the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) “jumped the shark?” Or, to put it another way, Was this past General Assembly the Assembly of Heresy?'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>1</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-6281010752257311078</id><published>2008-07-01T14:26:00.001-07:00</published><updated>2008-07-01T14:26:36.557-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Update…</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;Regular followers of this blog know that pastoral responsibilities have taken their toll over the past several months—this postings have been few and far between.  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Last week I took the entire week off.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We traveled to the in-laws for their 50&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt; anniversary party (Saturday), to attend a huge family reunion (Sunday) and for the memorial service for my wife’s sister’s father-in-law.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;My time away was wonderful—even the memorial service.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Many relative on the wife’s side of the family have accepted Christ in the past few years. &lt;span style=""&gt; &lt;/span&gt;It is humbling to see how God has moved in this family. &lt;span style=""&gt; &lt;/span&gt;I met Holly—soon to be my sister-in-law by marriage. &lt;span style=""&gt; &lt;/span&gt;She and her two teenage kids are great.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Guess what—no internet connection while I was gone. &lt;span style="font-family: Wingdings;"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;J&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I turned on my computer yesterday and wanted to weep.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;So many people have written on the assembly. &lt;span style=""&gt; &lt;/span&gt;I will begin writing tomorrow – Wednesday.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;My spiritual “nerves” are still to raw to comment today.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Will I offer any new thoughts? &lt;span style=""&gt; &lt;/span&gt;Will my “2 cents” add to the debate? &lt;span style=""&gt; &lt;/span&gt;I will strive to honor your time.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Time is too valuable to waste.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;See you tomorrow…&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-6281010752257311078?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/6281010752257311078/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=6281010752257311078' title='1 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/6281010752257311078'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/6281010752257311078'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/07/update.html' title='Update…'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>1</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-1053844938600193806</id><published>2008-06-17T09:46:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-06-17T09:49:06.950-07:00</updated><title type='text'>General Assembly Top 10 Issues--cont.</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;Did you know that the Stated Clerk of the PCUSA copies David Letterman?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Each night Letterman goes through his top ten list--at times the list is funny, other times it is dumb. other times it is just plain stupid.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Before each meeting of the Presbyterian Church’s General Assembly meeting the Stated Clerk offers his/her top ten list—the top ten issues coming before the Assembly.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The PCUSA web site offers the list—in no particular order.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Look at it here.  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Perhaps the most controversial proposal to come before the Assembly will be the new Form of Government (nFOG).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Form of Government could be called the “rules” section of the &lt;i style=""&gt;Book of Order&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;There is a desire to make the denomination more “missional” and to be more able to react quickly to changing ministry situations.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Others have written extensively on the nFOG and I will not try to duplicate their work—I could never do as good of a job as they have done.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I am frustrated with the use of the catch-word of “missional.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;One could ask, “What does it mean for a church or denomination to be missional?”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I do not find that the nFOG makes the PCUSA more missional.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The nFOG is based on trust.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We will be asked to “trust” that other churches are faithful to scripture.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We will be asked to “trust” that denominational staff and leaders are doing what they should be doing.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Trust.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Trust?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Does the denomination trust our churches?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;There are synods that are “going after” presbyteries because the presbyteries released congregations to the EPC.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;No trust there!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Congregations are seeking to leave the denomination and presbyteries are fighting them.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;No trust there!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Ministers openly violate the &lt;i style=""&gt;Book of Order&lt;/i&gt; where it comes to ordaining practicing GLBT persons.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They have violated their ordination oaths and destroyed any possibility of trust!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;A GA committee puts out a position statement on &lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Israel&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:country-region&gt; and then a week later puts in changes that basically go directly contrary to the first paper.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Bate and switch.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;No trust there!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;A few weeks ago a person from my church was schedule to have a pacemaker implanted into their body to help the heart beat as it should.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;In getting ready for that surgery, test found a “growth” on the adrenal gland on the left kidney.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They took out the adrenal gland but postponed the pacemaker surgery until she was stronger.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;She has now had that surgery.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The PCUSA was substantially weakened at the last Assembly and the two years that have followed.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I do not believe that the PCUSA is healthy enough to survive the drastic surgery of the nFOG.  Don't get me wrong, I PCUSA is not going to die if the nFOG passes.  More churches will leave.  What will I do if the nFOG passes?  I'm not sure.  I guest that my response will be based on what happens as the nFOG is implemented.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-1053844938600193806?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/1053844938600193806/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=1053844938600193806' title='2 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/1053844938600193806'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/1053844938600193806'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/06/general-assembly-top-10-issues-cont.html' title='General Assembly Top 10 Issues--cont.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>2</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-8622235975013594371</id><published>2008-06-11T09:30:00.001-07:00</published><updated>2008-06-11T09:30:44.775-07:00</updated><title type='text'>General Assembly Top 10 Issues--Part 2.</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;Did you know that the Stated Clerk of the PCUSA copies David Letterman?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Each night Letterman goes through his top ten list--at times the list is funny, other times it is dumb. other times it is just plain stupid.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Before each meeting of the Presbyterian Church’s General Assembly meeting the Stated Clerk offers his/her top ten list—the top ten issues coming before the Assembly.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The PCUSA web site offers the list—in no particular order.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Look at it here.  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Another of the top ten issues deals with “PC(USA) ecumenical stance and covenants.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Stated Clerk said, &lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;“The 218th General Assembly will take action on a number of ecumenical items, including a proposed new policy on the ecumenical stance of the PC(USA) and covenant agreements with four different churches: the Korean Presbyterian Church in &lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;America&lt;/st1:country-region&gt;, the Episcopal Church, the Catholic Church and the &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Moravian&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt; &lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;Church&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;.”&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;As a “denomination” these may be important issues.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;In the local church these are not an issue.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We work cooperatively with these denomination—and others.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It is crazy that we have to take “official” action to affirm that these groups are Christian churches we are willing to work with.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;What the State Clerk does not say is that the General Assembly will seek to slap the wrist of the Evangelical Presbyterian Church (overtures on the EPC are listed under the topic of ecumenical and interfaith relations).&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I have struggles in the ecumenical interfaith area facing the Assembly.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The world-wide Anglican community is in the process of disciplining the Episcopal Church in the &lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;United States&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:country-region&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Why is the PCUSA trying to affirm the actions of the Episcopal Church at a time when members of the Anglican Communion are distancing themselves from the Episcopal Church?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;And yet, the Evangelical Presbyterian Church has not been sanctioned by any Reformed oversight “body” and yet the PCUSA is trying to punish the EPC.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I don’t get it?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;If the PCUSA seeks to discipline the EPC then the PCUSA should affirm the discipline that the Anglican Communion is dishing out to the Episcopal Church.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I guess that what we are saying is:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;“A denomination can believe and do what ever it wants as long as PCUSA congregations do not seek join that other denomination.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Pretty self serving.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-8622235975013594371?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/8622235975013594371/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=8622235975013594371' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8622235975013594371'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8622235975013594371'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/06/general-assembly-top-10-issues-part-2.html' title='General Assembly Top 10 Issues--Part 2.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-1280654615392881</id><published>2008-06-10T08:52:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-06-10T08:58:57.921-07:00</updated><title type='text'>General Assembly Top 10 Issues.</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;Did you know that the Stated Clerk of the PCUSA copies David Letterman?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Each night Letterman goes through his top ten list--at times the list is funny, other times it is dumb. other times it is just plain stupid.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Before each meeting of the Presbyterian Church’s General Assembly meeting the Stated Clerk offers his/her top ten list—the top ten issues coming before the Assembly.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The PCUSA web site offers the list—in no particular order.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.pcusa.org/ga218/toptenissues.htm"&gt;Look at it here.&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Did you know that &lt;a href="http://www.pcusa.org/theologyandworship/confession/belhar.pdf"&gt;The Belhar Confession&lt;/a&gt; is one of the most important issues coming before the Assembly?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;What???&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;You must be joking!!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Has the Stated Clerk lost his mind?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Praise God that our Stated Clerk isn’t running for another term of office.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;For the unenlightened (of which I was one), The Belhar Confession was written in the 1980s in &lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;South Africa&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:country-region&gt; as a response to Apartheid. &lt;span style=""&gt; &lt;/span&gt;It is now being pushed to combat racial separatism in any setting.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Now, don’t get me wrong, I am against racial separatism.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;If we adopt this then I hope we “enforce” it equally.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I am confident that this will be one more weapon in the arsenal to degrade &lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Israel&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:country-region&gt; while building up the Palestinians.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;But before we do that, let’s remember scripture and take the plank from our own eye before we begin to operate on someone else’s eye.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;A friend of mine lives in an Alaskan &lt;a href="http://www.visitanchorage.net/821.cfm"&gt;Yup’ik&lt;/a&gt; village.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He has been married to a Yup’ik Eskimo woman for around thirty years.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They have lived in the village for their entire married life, except when the wife went to college to get her teaching degree.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They speak Yup’ik in their home.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They live a subsistence lifestyle.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;My friend has learned and adopted their culture.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He is one of the two best hunters and trappers in the village.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Yet, he is, and always be, a second class citizen in his village.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The village IS NOT a “reservation” (Study the &lt;a href="http://www.alaskool.org/projects/ANCSA/reports/rsjones1981/ANCSA_History71.htm"&gt;Alaskan Native Claims Settlement Act&lt;/a&gt; to understand those particular issues).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He will never be allowed to have a say in the community government.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The PCUSA should speak out about against this injustice if it adopts The Belhar Confession.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Here in &lt;st1:state st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Washington&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:State&gt;, a new Native American casino is about to open.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Several members of that tribe (they have been on the council) have been removed from the tribe in a power play dispute.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;These ostracized people are losing out on mega-dollars, as well as their health care.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They are having to “document” that their dead relatives really were a part of the tribe (up until now their family membership has never been in doubt).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The PCUSA should speak out about against this injustice if it adopts The Belhar Confession.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I know a young native boy (who isn’t so young any more).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The young man is &lt;a href="http://www.visitanchorage.net/821.cfm"&gt;Tlingit&lt;/a&gt; and born in &lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;Sitka&lt;/st1:City&gt;, &lt;st1:state st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Alaska&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:State&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;His mother (a full blood Tlingit) is from a family that has been active in the Presbyterian Church in &lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Sitka&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:City&gt; for generations.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This lady was unable to care for her baby and put her baby up for adoption.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;A couple (the wife is Caucasian and the husband is Native American—not of the Tlingit tribe) that I know adopted the child.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The birth mother (and family) of this child have refused to “register” him as a Tlingit—this means that the child (now a young man) is not recognized by the tribe or the U.S. government as a Tlingit and he misses out on all of the benefits that go with that recognition (membership in the Native Corporation, financial assistance, health benefits, etc.).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The PCUSA should speak out about against this injustice if it adopts The Belhar Confession—especially, since the birth family is Presbyterian!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The Belhar Confession looks good on paper.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Belhar Confession speaks part of the gospel message.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We should be involved in speaking out about racial injustice.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;However, The Confession of 1967 does just that!!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Check out The &lt;a href="http://www.pcusa.org/theologyandworship/confession/confess67.pdf"&gt;Confession of 1967&lt;/a&gt; here and look at section 9.44a:&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;“God has created the peoples of the earth to be one universal family.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;In his reconciling love, God overcomes the barriers between sisters and brothers and breaks down every form of discrimination based on racial or ethnic difference, real or imaginary.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The church is called to bring all peoples to receive and uphold one another as persons is all relationships of life:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;in employment, housing, education, leisure, marriage, family, church, and the exercise of political rights.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Therefore, the church labors for the abolition of all racial discrimination and ministers to those injured by it.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Congregations, individuals, or groups of Christians who exclude, dominate, or patronize others, however subtly, resist the Spirit of God and bring contempt on the faith which they profess.”&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The PCUSA is facing huge issues!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Belhar Confession is not one of them! &lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-1280654615392881?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/1280654615392881/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=1280654615392881' title='1 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/1280654615392881'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/1280654615392881'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/06/general-assembly-top-10-issues.html' title='General Assembly Top 10 Issues.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>1</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-1971708340892603652</id><published>2008-06-05T22:48:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-06-05T22:50:34.028-07:00</updated><title type='text'>I'm still here... honest :-)</title><content type='html'>&lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Once again, pastoral duties have occupied all of my time.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;As the saying goes, “When it rains, it pours.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;In the past few weeks I have had:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;ul style="margin-top: 0in;" type="disc"&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Two      memorial services.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;One      person with cancer that died this week (folks from the church and I have      been providing a lot of care for the person and the family.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Am currently working on the memorial      service.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Two      persons in the hospital with strokes.&lt;span style=""&gt;       &lt;/span&gt;One is recovering quite well and the other (who has Alzheimer’s) has been placed in a care facility that specializes with      Alzheimer’s.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The recent health      difficulties sped up his memory troubles.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;One      person diagnosed with a reoccurrence cancer—lung cancer has come back in      the Adrenal gland.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;She had surgery      to remove the Adrenal gland and then had to have surgery to put in a heart      pace maker.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Chemo begins next week.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;An      elderly woman who is very weak due to being sick. &lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;All of these ministry items are public knowledge.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;There are many important issues facing the PCUSA and the upcoming meeting of the General Assembly.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Hopefully, I will be able to get back to posting next week.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Pastor Lance&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-1971708340892603652?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/1971708340892603652/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=1971708340892603652' title='1 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/1971708340892603652'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/1971708340892603652'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/06/im-still-here-honest.html' title='I&apos;m still here... honest :-)'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>1</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-5864736199795385639</id><published>2008-05-23T08:33:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-12-11T07:41:16.229-08:00</updated><title type='text'>Pentecost Transformation (Part 3)</title><content type='html'>&lt;a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SDbj_eLdcCI/AAAAAAAAASA/TUZfAfSvnOM/s1600-h/presebyterian+family+tree+2.jpg"&gt;&lt;img style="margin: 0px auto 10px; display: block; text-align: center; cursor: pointer;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SDbj_eLdcCI/AAAAAAAAASA/TUZfAfSvnOM/s320/presebyterian+family+tree+2.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5203597099045580834" border="0" /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;(click on the "photo" for a larger version)  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;God is doing great things around the globe.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The gospel is spreading like wildfire—driven by the Holy Spirit.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This fantastic growth is happening almost everywhere; that is, except North America and &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Western Europe&lt;/st1:place&gt; (“NA/WE”).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Oh sure, there are places where God is drawing people to himself, there are pockets here and there, churches here and there.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Any honest examination of the church world-wide will cause a person to see the sad facts concerning the church in North America and &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Western Europe&lt;/st1:place&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The first post looked at how the NA/WE church is out of touch with the supernatural.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The second post looked at how we do not want the Holy Spirit to change us. &lt;span style=""&gt; &lt;/span&gt;Today we look at another reason why the NA/WE church is missing out on the global movement of God’s Spirit.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;b style=""&gt;The Holy Spirit is binds us together as Christ’s people like the Torah bound the Israelites together as God’s people:&lt;/b&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;    &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt; &lt;/span&gt;It was an awkward moment.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Jesus was stand on top of a mountain with his disciples--Jesus knew that he was about to ascent into heaven, the disciples had were clueless about what was about to happen.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Jesus told them to go to every &lt;i style=""&gt;ethnos&lt;/i&gt; (ethnic or people group, not nation).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He then told them to go to stay in &lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Jerusalem&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:City&gt; until God gave them the gift (Holy Spirit) that had been promised to them.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They had to wait on God’s timing.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;As the disciples waited in &lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Jerusalem&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:City&gt; the city began to come to life—filled to the brim with people.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Jews from across the Mediterranean region traveled to &lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Jerusalem&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:City&gt; for the festival of &lt;i style=""&gt;Shavuot&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;Shavuot&lt;/i&gt; is the festival where the Israelites celebrated God giving the Torah to Moses and the people receiving the Torah—becoming the people of God.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shavuot"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;Shavuot&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt; marked the end of the grain harvest.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This was the first day that people could bring the &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikkurim"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;Bikkurim&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt; to the temple.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;“What is the &lt;i style=""&gt;bikkurim&lt;/i&gt;?” you may ask.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;There were seven harvests where a family would save the first fruits of the harvest.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;These offerings would be placed in a special basket.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The basket of first fruit offerings (&lt;i style=""&gt;bikkurim&lt;/i&gt;) would be taken to the temple as an offering to God.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;People had journeyed to &lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Jerusalem&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:City&gt; to celebrate the Torah, being the people of God and to bring the &lt;i style=""&gt;bikkurim&lt;/i&gt; as an offering to God.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Then God did something amazing!!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Holy Spirit!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Tongues of fire!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Holy Spirit came upon all of Jesus’ disciples!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Peter preached about the life, death and resurrection Jesus.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Peter called people to repentance and to follow Jesus.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Thousands were converted that day.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The revival had begun.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;All of this happened on the day when the Jews had gathered together to celebrate the Torah and being the people of God.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;All of this took place on the day of bringing the first fruits offering to God.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This is did not happen by coincidence!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The Holy Spirit bound these thousands of believers together as one church—even though they spoke different languages and lived in different countries.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They followed one Lord and Savior—Jesus Christ!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The thousands who received Christ that day were truly the “first fruit” of this new time.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;God weeps when he looks at the divisions in his body today.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I am appalled when the leadership of the Presbyterian Church says that people are splitting Christ’s church when congregations leave the denomination.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The PCUSA is already split—it is fractured like broken window that is held together with masking tape (look at the chart at the top of this post).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Our leadership “talks with” groups that aren’t even Christian and some “Christian” churches that have drifted so far from the gospel that they may no longer be “Christian,” and seems to totally ignore other Christian groups.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I have served as an ordained pastor in four communities.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;In every instance there were churches that wanted to work together for the &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;Kingdom&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt; of &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;God&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt; in our town.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;These churches were:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Southern Baptist, Conservative Baptist, Assembly of God, Independent, and Evangelical Covenant.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The churches that very seldom want to work together were the “liberal” churches. In one town the Methodists would work together on some projects.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Why can’t the “church” be united?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Why can’t the Holy Spirit bind us together as one church?&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I believe that it goes back to &lt;i style=""&gt;Shavuot&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It was the Torah that held the Israelites together.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They had God’s word.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They knew what God expected of them.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They knew about sin and redemption through sacrifices.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They were held together by the same belief system.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;In the Presbyterian Church it is our property that holds us together—it is our beliefs that divide us.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We have pastors, churches and denominational leaders that do not believe that Jesus bodily rose from the dead, is the only way to God, that “sin” is sin, etc.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Holy Spirit cannot join those who are heading in different directions, following different masters.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Denominations ARE NOT the “body of Christ.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Churches, and the people who are a part of them, that follow the risen Lord are the body of Christ.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;We are working on a joint project with the local &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Baptist&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt; &lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;Church&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt; and an &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Independent&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt;  &lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;Church&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;—&lt;a href="http://www.grahamjam.org/"&gt;Graham Jam 2008&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The project is the brain-child of the &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Baptist&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt; &lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;Church&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They are footing practically all of the bills—they are by far the biggest of the churches.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They invited churches that they knew served the risen Lord Jesus.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Holy Spirit binds us together in ways that denomination never can.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I am thankful that the denominational age is coming to an end.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Denominations have not, and cannot, bind us together.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;)Just look at the chart at the beginning of this post.)&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The chart shows the splits and mergers in the Presbyterian “family.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We need to be transformed by the Holy Spirit—then and only then can be united as THE CHURCH by the Holy Spirit.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-5864736199795385639?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/5864736199795385639/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=5864736199795385639' title='2 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/5864736199795385639'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/5864736199795385639'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/05/pentecost-transformation-part-3.html' title='Pentecost Transformation (Part 3)'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><media:thumbnail xmlns:media='http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/' url='http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5ehmc6YKXCQ/SDbj_eLdcCI/AAAAAAAAASA/TUZfAfSvnOM/s72-c/presebyterian+family+tree+2.jpg' height='72' width='72'/><thr:total>2</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-2749771702640688237</id><published>2008-05-21T18:37:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-05-21T18:38:19.546-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Pentecost Transformation (Part 2)</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;(Note:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Sorry for the time between posts—I have had to focus on pastoral “stuff” the past couple of weeks; after all, I am a pastor first and foremost.)  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;God is doing great things around the globe.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The gospel is spreading like wildfire—driven by the Holy Spirit.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This fantastic growth is happening almost everywhere; that is, except North America and &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Western Europe&lt;/st1:place&gt; (“NA/WE”).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Oh sure, there are places where God is drawing people to himself, there are pockets here and there, churches here and there.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Any honest examination of the church world-wide will cause a person to see the sad facts concerning the church in North America and &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Western Europe&lt;/st1:place&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The last post looked at how the NA/WE church is out of touch with the supernatural.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Today we look at another reason why the NA/WE church is missing out on the global movement of God’s Spirit.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;b style=""&gt;The Holy Spirit is God’s power to change us--but we don’t want to change:&lt;/b&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;    &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;“I don’t want to…” is a favorite saying of most two-year olds.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The typical two-year old wants what they want, when they want it.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The typical adult in NA/WE is just like the two-year old child—totally self focused.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;When was there ever such a self-absorbed society?&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Change?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I don’t want to change!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;You can’t make me change!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;God made me the way that I am—therefore, I must be alright.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Peter was hand picked by Jesus to be one of his disciples.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Peter wasn’t perfect—far from it, in fact.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Peter didn’t see any need to change until he experienced brokenness before Jesus along the sea shore following the resurrection.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Pentecost transformation of Peter was astounding.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The one who denied Jesus was now openly preaching about the crucified and risen Jesus.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He needed to be transformed by the Holy Spirit in order to be used by God.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Paul was happy with his life.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He was serving God and the temple.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He was all for keeping the “church” just the way it had always been.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He loved the Torah.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He was passionately devoted to the church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The problem—he was serving the church and not serving Jesus or God.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Holy Spirit totally transformed his life.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He had to give up a lot of what he held dear.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The gospel spread throughout the Gentile world because Paul was transformed by the Holy Spirit.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;We (I) don’t want to change!!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The gay man wants to keep fulfilling his desire for sexual gratification with another man.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The man that commits adultery wants to keep seeing that woman that has brought a new sense of excitement into his life.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The meth user looks forward to the next fix.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The person who habitually runs red lights sees no reason to stop at a meaningless traffic light.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The computer hacker sees no reason to give up the joy getting through a new firewall.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The CEO who accepts a $2 million bonus sees no reason to reject it even though thousands of people are being laid off by his company.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The person sitting outside of the hospital (in their hospital gown) with an IV machine hooked up to them sees no reason to give up the cigarette they are sucking on.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Politicians see no reason to quit making promises that they cannot keep.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Do you see a pattern?&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Every one of us needs to experience the transforming power of the Holy Spirit.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We are all for it as long as we don’t have to change!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;And, that is the problem with the NA/WE church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The NA/WE church is filled with people who do not want to change.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We are afraid that God will tell us that what we are doing is wrong and that we are to stop doing it.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We are afraid that God will have us do something that we don’t want to do.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I remember a Methodist pastor who was serving a “united” church (a Presbyterian church and a Methodist church had joined to become one church) in my Presbytery.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He had been perfectly happy with his life as a pastor.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The his prior church expected him to preach on Sunday, officiate at weddings and funerals and very little else.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He had been a very liberal pastor for over ten years.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Then something happened—he met Jesus and the Holy Spirit.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;His life was transformed.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He said, “I became a born again liberal!”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;His Methodist pastor colleagues thought he had lost his senses.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He still had a passion for the poor and homeless.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He read the Bible in a new way—sin became sin, the Bible became God’s word.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Holy Spirit did a transforming work in his life.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Most NA/WE Christians do not want to experience any kind of transformation.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We run from the Holy Spirit because we are afraid of what God might do to us.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We don’t want to change and that is the problem! &lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-2749771702640688237?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/2749771702640688237/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=2749771702640688237' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/2749771702640688237'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/2749771702640688237'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/05/pentecost-transformation-part-2.html' title='Pentecost Transformation (Part 2)'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-8369879500563389737</id><published>2008-05-12T08:48:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-05-12T09:05:24.917-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Pentecost Transformation</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;God is doing great things around the globe.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The gospel is spreading like wildfire—driven by the Holy Spirit.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This fantastic growth is happening almost everywhere; that is, &lt;a href="http://www.thinkchristian.net/index.php/2008/01/04/new-poll-is-american-church-in-decline/"&gt;except&lt;/a&gt; North America and &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Western Europe&lt;/st1:place&gt; (“NA/WE”).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Oh sure, there are places where God is drawing people to himself, there are pockets here and there, churches here and there.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Any honest examination of the church world-wide will cause a person to see the sad facts concerning the church in North America and &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Western Europe&lt;/st1:place&gt;.  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;God is the same—at all times and all places.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Jesus Christ is the same—at all times and all places.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Holy Spirit is the same—at all times and all places.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;“So what is different?” you might be asking.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Well… it’s the people!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;For the next couple of days I am going to think “out loud” about what I think some of the issues are.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;You can feel free to add additional ideas later in the series—and to comment on the current issue.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;b style=""&gt;Out of touch with and fear of the supernatural:&lt;/b&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;    &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Satan’s biggest accomplishment in NA/WE is convincing the church that the supernatural isn’t real.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I mean REALLY REAL!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Oh sure, we give lip service to the spirit world but we really don’t believe it.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We don’t want to have anything to do with it.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Can you imagine a football team going out onto the field to play their game blindfolded?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The team is pretending that the opponent isn’t there.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The team is going to run the plays that were drawn up in the locker room.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They have done those plays so many times that they can do them with their eyes covered.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;That is what the NA/WE church seems to be doing.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;You say that you believe in the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit and the spirit world?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Prove it!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;When was the last time you (or your church) had to deal the demons and the demonic?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;When was the last time someone spoke in tongues during worship?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;When was the last time someone was supernaturally healed during one of your worship services?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Evergreen Presbyterian Church is just as guilty as most churches in NA/WE—well, sort of.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We have had to deal with demons and demonic activity.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We have had a “word of knowledge” during a special worship service.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;However, most of our church would be VERY uncomfortable with these issues.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;How many Presbyterian pastors do not believe in the person of Satan?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It is a fairly large number.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;How many Methodist pastors do not believe in the person of Satan?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It is an even larger number than in the Presbyterian Church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;How many Episcopal, UCC, Congregational, ELCA and American Baptist pastors do not believe in the person of Satan?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The answer is “far too many.”&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The Apostle Paul writes, “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.” (&lt;a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=56&amp;amp;chapter=6&amp;amp;verse=12&amp;amp;version=31&amp;amp;context=verse"&gt;Ephesians 6:12&lt;/a&gt;)&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;How can we win a battle against a foe that we do not believe exists?&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;A weak, cerebral Christian church in NA/WE has caused people to look elsewhere for a supernatural religious experience.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;People long for something greater than themselves.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;People long for a tangible experience with the supernatural.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The NA/WE gives them liturgy and form—other “religions” give them supernatural experiences.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;A person can drive a few miles from &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;Graham&lt;/st1:city&gt;, &lt;st1:state st="on"&gt;Washington&lt;/st1:state&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;, to see/experience J.Z Knight “channel” Ramtha (and pay thousands of $$$ for the experience).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;People dabble in religions where they can receive power from crystals, where they can cast spells, where they can consult mediums to learn about the future.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Mean while, the NA/WE church fights about the ordination of practicing, non-repentant, gay, lesbian, bi-sexual and transgender persons.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We ordain people who do not believe that Jesus bodily rose from the dead.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We are losing the battle because it is a spiritual battle—and we don’t even like to recognize that the supernatural really exists.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I attended Fuller Theological Seminary back in the ‘80s.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wimber"&gt;John Wimber&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._Peter_Wagner"&gt;Peter Wagne&lt;/a&gt;r taught a &lt;a href="http://www.americanpresbyterianchurch.org/fuller_seminary.htm"&gt;class in the &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;School&lt;/st1:placetype&gt;  of &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;World Missions&lt;/st1:placename&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/a&gt; on the Holy Spirit (move down the linked article to the section on the class).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This class recognized that missionaries were going to be confronted with supernatural powers.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Defeating these supernatural entities would be an important step in taking the gospel around the world.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The class exposed the students to many of the supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The class was the most difficult class on campus to get into—students in the &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;School&lt;/st1:placetype&gt; of &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;World Missions&lt;/st1:placename&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt; had first choice and then the rest of the students based on how close they were to graduating.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;School&lt;/st1:placetype&gt; of &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Theology&lt;/st1:placename&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt; professors HATED the class.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The said that you can’t teach and demonstrate those kinds of spiritual gifts.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I am positive that the professors “believed” that those gifts and the supernatural” battle were real—the class just didn’t fit in with their idea of scripture, seminary and the church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;School&lt;/st1:placetype&gt; of &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Theology&lt;/st1:placename&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt; professors demanded that the class be ended.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Sure enough, they were able to kill the class. &lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The NA/WE church is out of touch with the Holy Spirit and the supernatural.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Our seminaries (denominational and non-denominational) do not help the situation.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We try to fight against a foe we do not understand and without the supernatural tools that God has provided us.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;God weeps.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-8369879500563389737?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/8369879500563389737/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=8369879500563389737' title='3 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8369879500563389737'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8369879500563389737'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/05/pentecost-transformation.html' title='Pentecost Transformation'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>3</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-8842940298904312596</id><published>2008-05-07T08:26:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-05-07T08:33:35.545-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Preparation for Pentecost</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;The church calendar shows that this coming Sunday (May 11) is Pentecost Sunday.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Some churches have people dress in “red” for Pentecost (“Red Hat” ladies, this should be your favorite Sunday).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Evergreen has special Pentecost banners.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The red paraments need to come off the shelf and be placed on the communion table and pulpit.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;At Evergreen, we sing our own rendition of &lt;a href="http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/rememberthetitans/spiritinthesky.htm"&gt;Norman Greenbaum’s &lt;i style=""&gt;Spirit in the Sky&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt; (we only had to change a few words—it is one of the few Sunday’s where I will play the electric guitar in church).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Pentecost is almost here.  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;There is a wonderful &lt;a href="http://www.maranathalife.com/teaching/jew-hol2.htm"&gt;linkage between the Old Testament feasts and Jesus&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It is too bad that so many people are practically illiterate when it comes to the Old Testament.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Our faith is rooted and grounded in the Old Testament.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Our preparations for Pentecost will be enhanced when we look at the link between the Old and New Testaments (or, Hebrew and Apostolic Scriptures, in the words of my messianic pastor friend).&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;God’s people were to celebrate the &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passover"&gt;Passover&lt;/a&gt; (also called the Festival of Unleavened Bread) every year.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The 10&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt; plague that was coming upon Pharaoh and the Egyptian people was the killing of the first born son.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Hebrew people were to sacrifice a lamb and place some of the blood on the door posts of their homes.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The angel of death would see the mark and “pass over” that household.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Jesus was crucified on the Passover.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;His death is THE Passover sacrifice, once for all.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Those who are marked with the blood of Christ do not have to fear death—they have eternal life!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counting_of_the_Omer"&gt;The Counting of the Omer&lt;/a&gt; comes on the heels of the Passover.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Omer is the 49 day period between Passover and Pentecost.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It is a time of denying yourself in preparation for the celebration on Pentecost.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;In the New Testament tradition we have the 40 days between Easter and Christ’s ascension AND the ten days where the disciples were waiting in &lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Jerusalem&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:City&gt; as per Jesus’ instructions.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This 50 day period is to prepare us for the Pentecost experience.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shavuot"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;Shavuoth&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt; (Pentecost) is the Old Testament holy day related to Moses and the Torah.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Hebrew people believe that God gave the Torah to Moses on &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;Mt.&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt;  &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Sinai&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt; on &lt;i style=""&gt;Shavuoth&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Torah is what bound the people of God into a nation.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Torah is where God revealed his will and statutes to his people.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;Shavuoth&lt;/i&gt; was also the first day when people would bring &lt;i style=""&gt;bikkurim&lt;/i&gt; to the temple.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The &lt;a href="http://www.hebroots.org/chap5.html"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;bikkurim&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt; ( on this link, be sure to scroll down to Chapter 5) was made of the seven crops that were so important to the Hebrew people:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;wheat, barley, grapes, figs, pomegranates, olives and dates.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The “first fruits” from these harvests were placed in woven baskets of gold and silver and brought to the Lord.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;For Christians, Pentecost is when we celebrate God’s giving of the Holy Spirit.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity and is the one who empowers us to serve God, shows us God’s will and gifts us for service in the &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;Kingdom&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt; of &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;God&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;On the first Christian Pentecost there was a tremendous “first harvest”—thousands of people gave their lives to Christ!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The harvest continues today!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The Hebrew people so valued the Torah that they spent 49 days preparing to celebrate the receiving of the Torah.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It would be great if Christians spent 49 days preparing to celebrate Pentecost!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We could spend 49 days praying for God to gift us for service.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We could spend 49 days preparing to be a part of God’s “harvest” team.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Well, we don’t have 49 days until Pentecost—we have today (Wednesday), Thursday, Friday and Saturday.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We had best get at it if we are going to be “prepared” for Pentecost!&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-8842940298904312596?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/8842940298904312596/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=8842940298904312596' title='2 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8842940298904312596'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8842940298904312596'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/05/preparation-for-pentecost.html' title='Preparation for Pentecost'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>2</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-8931852761845441231</id><published>2008-05-06T07:57:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-05-06T08:04:04.938-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Breaking Out of the Box</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;Sunday afternoon was spent up at the church instead of taking my normal post-sermon nap.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;My “Sunday’ begins with worship team practice and worship on Saturday and then slides into “Sunday” with another worship team practice, teaching a class and then leading worship.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This past Sunday was different.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Immediately following worship the front of the sanctuary had to be dismantled for the benefit concert we were hosting that evening.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The sanctuary lighting had already been changed on Saturday morning.&lt;span style=""&gt;    &lt;/span&gt;New risers and portable sound system were set up.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I sat in my office as car after car arrived with our “guests.”  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;a href="http://s220359300.onlinehome.us/"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;Breath of Aire&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;, a sixty-voice choir, sang at Evergreen on Sunday night.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;You are really missing out if you live in western &lt;st1:state st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Washington&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:State&gt; and haven’t heard this choir.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Many of their members are church choir directors and musicians.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Their members come from across the state of &lt;st1:state st="on"&gt;Washington&lt;/st1:State&gt;, with their pianist coming up from &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;Portland&lt;/st1:City&gt;, &lt;st1:state st="on"&gt;Oregon&lt;/st1:State&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Their web site states:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;“Breath of Aire is commited to helping our community by singing for Benefit Concerts.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;BOA performs a wide range of music from Patriotic, &lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Americana&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:City&gt;, Country, and Showtunes to Classical, Gospel, Contemporary Inspirational, and Spirituals.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;BOA’s signature sound is a highlight as the choir sings moving acappella songs around the audience.” &lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;a href="http://loveincpiercecounty.org/Portals/_Rainbow/Documents/Microsoft%20Word%20-%202008%20January%20newsletter97.03.pdf"&gt;Love, Inc (&lt;u&gt;L&lt;/u&gt;ove &lt;u&gt;I&lt;/u&gt;n the &lt;u&gt;N&lt;/u&gt;ame of &lt;u&gt;C&lt;/u&gt;hrist&lt;/a&gt;) is a Christian referral agency we use for assisting those in need.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They “check out” the story and situation of those calling for assistance and make appropriate referrals to agencies or churches.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Evergreen’s Deacons limited our assistance to $50 - $75 prior to working with Love, Inc. (unless we knew the people and situation).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We live in an area where some people make their “living” off of churches.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;One man told me, “I don’t work because I don’t have too.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Now, with Love, Inc’s clearance, we regularly assist in the $200 - $300 amount. &lt;span style=""&gt; &lt;/span&gt;We know the money is going to be a “hand up” and not a “hand out.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Love, Inc. is able to keep their doors open because of donations--they don’t “charge” anyone for their services.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They were running out of money last year and didn’t know how they were going to pay the rent—their next fundraiser was a month away.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We found out and met the need, after all, they assist us all the time.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;That is where the idea for this benefit concert came from.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Evergreen is a small church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We have a weekend worship attendance of around 100 people.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;How would we be able to host a meaningful fundraising concert?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;There was a very real possibility that there would be more in the choir than in audience.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;Breath of Aire&lt;/i&gt; didn’t blink an eye.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;One of their members said, “If there are only 50 people there then those are the people God wanted there.”&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The 2.5 hour concert was out of this world!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We had 131 people show up for the concert.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Several &lt;i style=""&gt;Breath of Aire&lt;/i&gt; members said that this was one of the best audiences they had ever had.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The sanctuary will get “put back” to normal over the next few days; the impact of the concert will last for a long time.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Many who attended were deeply touched by God.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;One woman who attends church in a neighboring town said, “This was the most spiritual experience I have ever had.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Several people in attendance had never been in our church before.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We were able to raise $1,200 for Love, Inc.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I have spent so much time on this concert to make a point—small churches don’t have to “think” small or settle for being small.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Two weeks ago we cancelled our regular worship services to work out in the community (&lt;a href="http://putyourfaithinaction.org/"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;Faith in Act!on&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This week we hosted a fabulous concert.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;In July we will be a co-sponsor of &lt;a href="http://www.grahamjam.org/"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;Graham Jam 2008&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Evergreen is intentionally looking “outside” of the walls of our church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The people of our church have been tremendously touched by these events.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It has taken a small army of folks to staff these events.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Every single person would do it again tomorrow!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Then, there is the impact we are having on the community of Graham—we are touching one person at a time.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Your church can make a difference!!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Break out of the “normal” church box.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Look and see where the Holy Spirit is leading your church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It may surprise you!&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-8931852761845441231?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/8931852761845441231/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=8931852761845441231' title='2 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8931852761845441231'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8931852761845441231'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/05/breaking-out-of-box.html' title='Breaking Out of the Box'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>2</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-8024365895391025316</id><published>2008-05-01T09:15:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-05-01T09:17:00.012-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Presbyterians Seeking Purpose Driven Ministry Conference Intersects With The Present Future—Part 2.</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;How do you get Presbyterians to begin thinking outside of the “normal” Presbyterian box?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The PCUSA, as a denomination, has done a good job of trying to be involved in “justice” issues—although, I am perplexed by why they only tackle projects on one side of the political isle.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Do we need to help the poor?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Yes, we do.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Do we need to work toward better race relations?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Yes, we do.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Do we need to try to lead people to Christ so that they can experience eternal life?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Yes, we do.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Do we need to encourage people to live moral, biblical lives?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Yes, we do.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Do we need to encourage Christians to grow in their faith, yielding more and more of their lives to Christ?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Yes, we do.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Do we need to encourage people to store God’s Word in their hearts (Psalm 119)?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Yes, we do.  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I have come to the conclusion (and I don’t like the conclusion) that denominations will have little impact on assisting local congregations to carry out these tasks.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It seems (at least by their actions) that most denominations care more about the survival of the “denomination” than they do about the &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;Kingdom&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt; of &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;God&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I cannot think of anything that the PCUSA has done to aid my congregation in its ministry in the past ten years.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The closest is the Presbyterian Disaster Assistance’s camps in the &lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;New Orleans&lt;/st1:City&gt; area and our Presbytery’s work in the flooded areas of southwest &lt;st1:state st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Washington&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:State&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Still, as important as these two things are, they have had very little impact on the ministry of Evergreen Presbyterian Church.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The world has changed and “higher headquarters” is doing nothing to assist our churches face this new landscape.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Oh, they say that the proposed revisions to the &lt;i style=""&gt;Book of Order&lt;/i&gt; will help us.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Bull!!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I have read the proposed changes—several times—and there is nothing that will help Evergreen face the changing religious landscape of today.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I read the stuff coming out of &lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Louisville&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:City&gt; and wonder, “Do these people even recognize that the world is changing?”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;All I see is more of the same old stuff.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;So, what is a pastor or a church to do?&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The other day I was watching an episode of &lt;a href="http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/deadliestcatch/deadliestcatch.html"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;The Deadliest Catch&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.deadliest-catch-wiki.discovery.com/page/Phil+Harris?t=anon"&gt;Captain Phil&lt;/a&gt;, captain of the Cornelia Marie, wall pulling up empty pots.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He would set his pots and they would come up empty.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;At wits end, he got on the radio and called some of his sister ships.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He called—they didn’t answer.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They were on the crabs and did not want the entire fleet to know about it.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Plus, some felt that all Phil did was follow other boats and set his crab pots where other boats were setting pots.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Phil felt all alone—responsible for the financial success of the boat and its crew.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Pastors in the Presbyterian Church (and most other denominations) are a lot like Captain Phil.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The denomination is not equipped (I would hate to think that they are unwilling) to help the local congregation fulfill its ministry.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;So what are we to do?&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Here are a few things I have come up with:&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;ul style="margin-top: 0in;" type="disc"&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Spend      a LOT of time in prayer and fasting.&lt;span style=""&gt;       &lt;/span&gt;God has to show us what he wants us to do.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We have to connect to his will because      he is not going to connect to our will.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Wait      on the Lord.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Most of us do not like      to wait on anything.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;In the past      two days I have watched three cars just blow through red traffic      signals—the drivers couldn’t be bothered with having to stop and wait.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Learn      all we can about the changing religious/spiritual climate of the &lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;United States&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:country-region&gt;      and the rest of the world.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It is      the same God who is active around this world.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;God is doing great things in many parts      of the world; we need to see what he is doing and catch the movement of      God’s Spirit.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Learn      from the past.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;“Learning from the      past” does not mean “repeating” the past.&lt;span style=""&gt;       &lt;/span&gt;I have been teaching a church history class for the past 14      weeks—only two or three more weeks to go.&lt;span style=""&gt;       &lt;/span&gt;The class has been anything but boring.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We have seen how God has moved in      powerful ways.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We have seen how the      Presbyterian Church missed out on several of those powerful movements      because of “fear,” being uncomfortable with the supernatural expressions      of the Holy Spirit and just plain old institutional stubbornness.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Keep      putting down your pots.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Crab pots      that are on the deck of a ship are guaranteed to not catch any crab.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Target      your ministries.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;A crab boat      targets male king (you can only keep the males) crabs during king crab      season.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Male king crabs hang out      with male king crabs, and they are located in different areas than Opelio      crabs.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;During Opelio crab season      you target male Opelio crabs.&lt;span style=""&gt;       &lt;/span&gt;Failing to target our ministries will yield poor results.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Learn      from those who are reaching people with the gospel—even if they aren’t      Presbyterian.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Don’t      be afraid of failure.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Be      prepared for those steeped in the denomination to be resistant and even      upset with you and your church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The      loudest critics of Rick Warren, Bill Hybels and Joel Osteen are      Christians—there are very few critics from outside the church.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-8024365895391025316?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/8024365895391025316/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=8024365895391025316' title='2 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8024365895391025316'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8024365895391025316'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/05/presbyterians-seeking-purpose-driven.html' title='Presbyterians Seeking Purpose Driven Ministry Conference Intersects With The Present Future—Part 2.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>2</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-3223149263026118244</id><published>2008-04-30T10:20:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-04-30T10:39:34.220-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Presbyterians Seeking Purpose Driven Ministry Conference Intersects With The Present Future.</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;Reggie McNeal’s &lt;a href="http://www.amazon.com/Present-Future-Tough-Questions-Church/dp/0787965685"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;The Present Future&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt; intersects nicely with the &lt;a href="http://purposedrivenpresbyteriansnetwork.net/"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;Purpose Driven &lt;/i&gt;Presbyterians&lt;/a&gt; model for ministry.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The similarities are:  &lt;ul style="margin-top: 0in;" type="disc"&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;The      world has changed—whether we like it or not.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Individual      churches are not reaching the potential that God has for them.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Christ      calls us to be missional—working to lead people to a relationship with      Jesus Christ.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;The      message of the gospel stays the same but the way that it is delivered to      those disconnected from Jesus must change.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Spiritual      formation will be a key component of a living, vital church.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;God’s      people need to be trained, equipped and released for ministry.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The easiest thing that a church can do is to continue doing exactly what it has been doing; unfortunately, what we have been doing may not be pleasing to God.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;As a Presbyterian pastor, I stand (actually, I am sitting at &lt;a href="http://www.sunriseoasis.com/"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;The Oasis&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;) convicted.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;For too many years I was not willing to tackle some of our church’s dysfunctional habits.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I have seen too many pastors (and church leaders) demonized by their churches (some of them deserved it).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Change is always difficult; change in a church is exponentially more difficult than most other settings for change.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Christ never said that following him was going to be easy.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The original disciples were beaten, tortured, arrested, ostracized and even killed for their faith.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;And yet, they gave everything they had to help spread the gospel.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;That is where the North American church runs into problems.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;We have it easy:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;freedom to worship any god that we choose, a democratic society where we actually have voice in how the government runs and more money than just about any culture since the beginning of time.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It is difficult for North American Christians (especially me) to be totally sold out to Jesus.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He told the rich young ruler to sell everything he had—his things got in the way of him being sold out to God.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Christ calls us to give up our will, our desire to get our way.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Jesus calls us to follow all of the commandments—all of them, not just the ones we like.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Jesus wants us to learn how to “submit” to him—yes, SUBMIT.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We conveniently forget that Jesus said that few will take the narrow path that leads to heaven.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The past few weeks have been very unsettling.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;God has been challenging me.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Am I willing to be sold out for Christ?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Am I willing to help lead a church to become sold out for Christ?&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;And then a miracle happened and God opened my eyes…&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Our youth group is hitting on all cylinders.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The vast majority of the students do not come from families with a church background.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;These young men and women are EXCITED about Jesus.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Every Sunday the back of the church is filled with these students.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;While our church canceled worship last weekend to work out in the community our high school students were right there—even with many of them doing a 30-hour famine to raise money for World Visions hunger programs at the same time.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;These young people didn’t just do the one job they signed up for—when they completed that task they went down to where the others were working and helped complete other projects.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They cooked and served breakfast to the entire Graham Fired Department (even though they had not eaten since breakfast the prior day).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They shoveled and raked dirt and gravel.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They scraped and painted picnic tables. &lt;span style=""&gt; &lt;/span&gt;SOLD OUT FOR CHRIST!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Evergreen Presbyterian Church has turned the corner.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We are beginning to learn what it means to be sold out for Christ.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We have a long way to go.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Call it &lt;i style=""&gt;Purpose Driven&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Call it moving into &lt;i style=""&gt;The Present Future&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Call it anything you want.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I call it—pleasing God!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-3223149263026118244?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/3223149263026118244/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=3223149263026118244' title='2 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/3223149263026118244'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/3223149263026118244'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/04/presbyterians-seeking-purpose-driven_30.html' title='Presbyterians Seeking Purpose Driven Ministry Conference Intersects With The Present Future.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>2</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-5560857650046929618</id><published>2008-04-29T08:47:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-04-29T08:50:34.961-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Presbyterians Seeking Purpose Driven Ministry Conference – Post #3.</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;Why did Jesus come to the earth?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Seeking that which is lost is a major theme of Jesus’ parables.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Jesus talked about lost sheep, a lost coin and a lost son.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;These parables showed how important saving the “lost” is to Jesus.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Jesus said, “&lt;a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&amp;amp;chapter=19&amp;amp;verse=10&amp;amp;version=31&amp;amp;context=verse"&gt;For the Son of Man came to seek and save that what was lost.&lt;/a&gt;”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Jesus was about salvation.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;What did Jesus think about the “church people” of his day?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Reading through the gospels it is easy to come to the conclusion that Jesus had a very low opinion of “church people” – especially the leaders.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The “church people” cared about themselves—not those who were “lost.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The “church people” didn’t give a rip about the “sinners.”&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Let’s fast-forward 2000 years…&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Would most churches be able to prove with a preponderance of the evidence that they care about sinners—those apart from Jesus?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Would I be able to prove it?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Would Presbyterian churches be able to prove it?&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Jesus spent so much time with “sinners” that the church leaders accused him of being a drunkard.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Jesus went to the parties.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Jesus went where there were prostitutes.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Jesus was with people when they were drunk.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Jesus was with the “crack-dealers” of his day – the tax collectors.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The “sinners” found that Jesus cared about them.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The sinners flocked to Jesus.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Jesus had good news for them.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Jesus gave them hope.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Jesus would give them life!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Now comes the hard part… if you don’t want to be convicted you better stop reading now.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;You have been warned!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Since I am a Presbyterian pastor I will be picking on Presbyterians but the criticisms apply to most every church and denomination.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The time has come to cut through all the crap.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;How many new conversions have there been at your/my church is the past two months?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;How many of the new members have truly come into membership through a profession of faith?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;How many of our new members (or people at worship) have simply migrated from another church?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Honestly, HOW MANY!!!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;In the Presbyterian Church we have three ways to become a member of the church:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;profession of faith, reaffirmation of faith and letter of transfer.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;At Evergreen, we regularly have people come to the church from churches that do not “transfer” members.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We are stuck with a dilemma—they don’t fit any of the categories.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;There isn’t a letter of transfer so we cannot “officially’ call them a transfer member.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They have continually worshipped God so they really haven’t come in by profession of faith or reaffirmation of faith.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;At Evergreen, we record that they come in through a reaffirmation of faith.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Thus, our “numbers” are not exactly correct.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;An in-depth look at most churchs would find that we gain new people from other churches.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We pat ourselves on the back for our annual membership gains.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;When the truth is that we just swap people back and forth.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;All the while, the “lost” are still lost.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It would seem as though the Presbyterian Church doesn’t care about the lost—even Evergreen!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;But things are changing (at least at Evergreen).&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The secret to being a healthy congregation is to have BALANCE between worship, fellowship/connecting, discipleship, ministry and mission/evangelism.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Church-Development-Essential-Qualities/dp/1889638005"&gt;Christian Schwartz&lt;/a&gt;, of &lt;a href="http://www.ncd-international.org/public/"&gt;Natural Church Development&lt;/a&gt;, says that a church can only grow to the level of its weakest area.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Presbyterian churches do not grow because we do not do evangelism (or what ever you want to call it).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Evangelism makes us uncomfortable.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Evangelism implies that some people won’t make it to heaven (and we have many pastors who don’t believe this).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We are more concerned about those inside the walls of the church than we are about those outside the church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We are out of balance.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Several years ago Evergreen Presbyterian Church did the Natural Church Development survey.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We found that our lowest area was “fellowship” – it was even lower that evangelism!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We put a lot of effort into building relationship.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We have made great strides in this area—we still have a long way to go.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;If Evergreen Presbyterian Church was to take the survey today we would find that our lowest area is evangelism/mission—we are too inwardly focused.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Faith in Act!on campaign was implemented to help change from an inward focus to an outward focus.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We have made baby steps—but we are started in the right direction!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;When I hear a church (or church leader, pastor or person sitting in the pews) say that we can’t have a “seeker” sensitive worship service I want to cry.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They are saying that they don’t care about the very people Jesus came to save.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The arrogance!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The pride!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;God’s judgment?&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I have yet to find a church that says, “Sinners not welcome here.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Yet, most things that our churches do communicate that very message.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;On the first day of the Presbyterians Seeking Purpose Driven Ministry conference we were challenged to “collect information” about the people in our community.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Part of this process includes going to those people who don’t go to church and asking them questions like (there are many more questions that could be asked):&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;ul style="margin-top: 0in;" type="disc"&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;What      are your greatest needs?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;What are      the needs of your family?&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Describe      the type (not denomination) of church you would go to if you were to go to      church?&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;What      do you like to do for fun?&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;What      is your favorite radio station?&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;What      makes you maddest about the church?&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Another part of this information gathering process involves hanging out with some folks who don’t go to church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Jesus did it all the time.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I have found that the longer a person is a Christian the less time they spend with unbelievers.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We lose touch with the very people Jesus came to save.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Coming away from this year’s Presbyterians Seeking Purpose Driven Ministry conference I felt the Holy Spirit challenging me to spend more time looking outside the walls of the church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I need to spend time with people who don’t go to church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I need to spend time with people who aren’t Christians.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;What would happen if every church REQUIRED their pastor(s) to take one Sunday each month and not go to church?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;No, they would get to just sit at home and watch the ball game.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The purpose of “missing” church would be to spend the day with a non-believer.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The pastor would be REQUIRED to report back to the Elders concerning that day.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Imagine doing that EVERY month.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I believe it would change the church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Before long, the entire church would close its doors one Sunday a month so that those who love Jesus would be able to spend quality, and quantity, time with the “lost.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Imagine…&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt; &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-5560857650046929618?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/5560857650046929618/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=5560857650046929618' title='3 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/5560857650046929618'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/5560857650046929618'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/04/presbyterians-seeking-purpose-driven_29.html' title='Presbyterians Seeking Purpose Driven Ministry Conference – Post #3.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>3</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-4234182466096454928</id><published>2008-04-28T11:02:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-04-28T11:06:17.407-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Presbyterians Seeking Purpose Driven Ministry Conference – Post #2.</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;God is moving mightily all around the world; God’s people (and church) are hindering that movement in North America and &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Western  Europe&lt;/st1:place&gt;.  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Dan Southerland (our main speaker) identified the four major movements of God in the world today.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Some churches focus on one or two of these areas, smart churches stand where these mighty streams converge.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;ul style="margin-top: 0in;" type="disc"&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;The      cell church movement:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Call them      small groups.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Call them life      groups.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Call them house churches.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Call them anything you like, the point      is that people will not stay in a church where they have not formed close      relationships—others of said that “you must grow smaller in order to grow      bigger.”&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;The      contemporary worship movement:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;For      the first time in the history of the church there is a single style of      music that unites Christians around the globe.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Hillsong comes out with a new worship cd      and within a month those songs are being sung on six continents in thousands      upon thousands of churches.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;The      seeker movement:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Dan shared a      concept called “disconnected” – people are disconnected from God:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Father, Son and Holy Spirit.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The seeker movement recognizes that      people are disconnected from God and intentionally tries to connect people      to God.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The purpose of Dan’s church      is helping disconnected people move to the next level in their      relationship with Jesus.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;The      church planting movement:&lt;span style=""&gt;       &lt;/span&gt;Denominations do a CRAPPY (my word, not Dan’s) job of planting      churches.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I have had many      conversations with a former denominational staffer person concerning      church planting and redevelopment.&lt;span style=""&gt;         &lt;/span&gt;Very, very few of the PCUSA’s new church developments have      succeeded in growing to an average of 200 people in worship each      week.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The PCUSA plants very few      churches.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;If we want to grow (in      terms of numbers) then we must plant new churches.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;There are at least three or four areas      in my part of the Presbytery that should have a Presbyterian church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Our Presbytery doesn’t have the $$$--the      new church development $$$ were spent on remodeling the Presbytery Office      (they are being repaid to the new church development account at the rate      of $10,000/year and it will take about 12 years to repay the money).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Local churches need to birth new      churches.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;That is the only way it      is going to work.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Dan’s church was      formed in 2005 with about five people.&lt;span style=""&gt;       &lt;/span&gt;They now worship well over a thousand AND have planted five or six      churches (I can’t remember whether it is five or six—I am getting too old).&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Traditional denominations/churches don’t like these four movements of God.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Traditional denominations/churches hope and pray for the days of old.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Traditional denominations/churches are uncomfortable with these movements of God—the movements don’t fit their worldview.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;How do these four movements of God fit into the Purpose Driven model?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Purpose Driven model identifies its five purposes from the Great Commandment and the Great Commission:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;worship, fellowship (connecting), discipleship, ministry &amp;amp; mission/evangelism.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The first three rivers of God’s action (cell church, contemporary music, seeker sensitive) fit nicely within the local congregation in the Purpose Driven model of ministry.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Church planting should be the next step for Purpose Driven church in their effort to reach the disconnected.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Dan defined “maturity” as, “the ability to choose purpose over preference.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Dan prefers traditional hymns, music and worship.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;So do the older folks at his church (&lt;a href="http://www.nextlevelchurch.org/pwsite/"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Next&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt;  &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Level&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt; &lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;Church&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/a&gt;).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;However, they intentionally set aside personal preferences in worship style so that they can reach people who are disconnected from God.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;His older folk want their grandchildren to know Christ—and that traditional worship styles do not connect with their grandchildren.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;SO… how does all of this apply to Evergreen Presbyterian Church and your church, too, for that matter?&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;We have just completed our four week Faith in Act!on campaign.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We average just over 100 people is worship each week.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We had about 85% of our church is small groups for the past four weeks!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The people in those small groups (and in worship) were encouraged to look outside the walls of our church to see people who are disconnected from Christ and people who are in need.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Each week the participants reported back to their groups the ways in which the Holy Spirit directed them to help people (that is being seeker driven). We cancelled our regular worship services this past weekend so that we could go out and serve our community and the world.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We had about 83% of congregation show up to serve our community and world yesterday.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The people that we served were absolutely BLOWN AWAY with what we were doing!!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;A reporter from a local paper was so amazed at what was going on that he was with our group for almost 2.5 hours!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He visited every work site and interviewed our workers.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He thought that we must have 500+ people at our church in order to have that many people out working in the community.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He could not believe the actual size of our church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Looking outward—not looking inward, it’s called seeker sensitive. Our worship is already leaning heavily in the contemporary direction, so there as no major change here—well, that isn’t quite true.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;During the month we used DVDs for many of our “Moments for &lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Mission&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:City&gt;” spots.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We also switched to our new software for controlling our graphic projections during worship—it is way cool!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;For the last month Evergreen Presbyterian Church has truly lived as a Purpose Driven Presbyterian congregation.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We were living out most of the four major streams of God’s action in today’s world.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;WAY COOL!&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-4234182466096454928?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/4234182466096454928/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=4234182466096454928' title='2 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/4234182466096454928'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/4234182466096454928'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/04/presbyterians-seeking-purpose-driven_28.html' title='Presbyterians Seeking Purpose Driven Ministry Conference – Post #2.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>2</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-609497719433355575</id><published>2008-04-24T04:25:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-04-24T04:26:13.125-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Presbyterians Seeking Purpose Driven Ministry Conference – Post #1.</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;(The &lt;i style=""&gt;Present Future&lt;/i&gt; series will conclude next week)  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The annual “Presbyterians Seeking Purpose Driven Ministry” conference is going on in &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;Satellite   Beach&lt;/st1:City&gt;, &lt;st1:state st="on"&gt;Florida&lt;/st1:State&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Once again, Presbyterians from across the nation have descended upon Trinity Presbyterian Church to learn about Purpose Driven ministry and to share ideas on how to make the transition to this ministry model.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;In many ways, it is a continuous process—a church never “arrives,” there are always changes that will need to be made.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The largest expansion of the Christian faith (in terms of numbers of conversions) is currently going on on planet earth.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;God is doing amazing things in Central and &lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;South America&lt;/st1:City&gt;, &lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;China&lt;/st1:country-region&gt;, &lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;India&lt;/st1:country-region&gt;, the &lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;Philippines&lt;/st1:country-region&gt;, Africa and &lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Australia&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:country-region&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The only two regions of the world that are not experiencing this revival are Western Europe and &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;North  America&lt;/st1:place&gt;!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;God is not the problem—God is the same all around the world.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The problem is the church and the Christians in North America and &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Europe&lt;/st1:place&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Yesterday I had two interesting experiences that I would like to share.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The first happened as I was walking to dinner. The good folks at Trinity provided dinner for us last night.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The food was wonderful!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Walking to the dinner line the two people in front of me were criticizing the content of the afternoon’s speaker.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They didn’t think that the content was “Presbyterian” enough.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They didn’t think that it “fit” within our Presbyterian system of government.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They were so stuck in their small “Presbyterian” world that they missed many points that fit nicely into the Presbyterian system.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The second happened at the beginning of the evening worship service.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I heard a comment that went something like this:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;“Doesn’t this church have any traditional music?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;kingdom&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt; of &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;God&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt; is open to all people!”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Once again, a major point was being missed.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Trinity has three different worship services:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;traditional, blended and contemporary.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Many Presbyterian churches do absolutely no contemporary music.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Trinity wants participants to experience blended and contemporary worship—we are already steeped in traditional worship!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I have tendonitis is my right arm.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Doing some things is quite painful.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;If my arm is to heal then I must do some things differently (clapping is a no no—it inflames the tendon).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The Presbyterian Church has memberitis—we are losing 40,000+ members year in and year out (not counting the recent members that have left for the Evangelical Presbyterian Church).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Presbyterian churches need to do things a little differently if they/we are ever going to reverse this trend.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-609497719433355575?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/609497719433355575/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=609497719433355575' title='3 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/609497719433355575'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/609497719433355575'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/04/presbyterians-seeking-purpose-driven.html' title='Presbyterians Seeking Purpose Driven Ministry Conference – Post #1.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>3</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-308301818332760097</id><published>2008-04-17T09:12:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-04-17T09:16:52.503-07:00</updated><title type='text'>The Present Future—New Reality #5—The Shift from Planning to Preparation.</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;            &lt;/span&gt;While on a trip to &lt;st1:state st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Hawaii&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:State&gt; I encountered the surfing culture.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Surfers pretty well view everything else in life as paying rent just to get to surf.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They get up before God rises and hit the water.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They surf before they go to work and toss the board in the back of the truck or in the backseat (hanging out the window or sticking out through the sunroof) so they can be back in the water during lunch and after work.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;In the weeks I observed surfers I never saw one surfer plan a single wave, but I did see them prepare to ride the waves when they came.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/i&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;            &lt;/span&gt;God is making waves all around the North American church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Some churches are going to get to ride them.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: right;" align="right"&gt;-McNeal, “The Present Future,” page. 92.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;            &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;God does the planning; we do the preparing.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: right;" align="right"&gt;-McNeal, page 95.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;b style=""&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;            &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;The five elements of a spiritual preparation architecture are vision, values, results, strengths, and learnings.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: right;" align="right"&gt;-McNeal, page 94.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I cannot surf!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;We have been to &lt;st1:state st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Hawaii&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:State&gt; several times.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;On one of our earlier trips our kids wanted to try surfing.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We lined up lessons for them.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Our daughter was a hard-working student at school.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;She gave the surfing her all.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;She was able to listen to the instructor and eventually get up on the board.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Our son, on the other hand, was a VERY GOOD skateboarder.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He spent all of his free time on his skateboard.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He went to skate church twice a week – once as a worker and once as a participant.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He could do tricks that most skateboarders only dream of doing.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;For him, the surf board was a no brainer.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He could jump up, look around and ride the wave without even trying.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I was smart enough to not even try surfing—I had had a bad experience many years earlier.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;A few years ago we went to &lt;st1:state st="on"&gt;Hawaii&lt;/st1:State&gt; to visit our daughter (she was attending the &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;University&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt; of &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Hawaii&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;She wanted to try surfing again.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Our son didn’t make the trip so I was selected to join her.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The videos that my wife took are beyond embarrassing.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;She and Alyssa laughed and laughed and laughed.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I cannot surf! &lt;span style="font-family: Wingdings;"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;L&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I can sail!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Wingdings;"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;J&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style="font-family: Wingdings;"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;J&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I can look at the waves and tell you how fast the wind is blowing.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I can look at a sail and tell you if it is set for maximum efficiency.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The lines (there are no “ropes” on a boat) are always ready for the next maneuver.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;All safety equipment is functional and ready to be used.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;My sailing bag has twice as much “stuff” in it than what most sailors take.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Most never gets used—but I am always prepared.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It has been said that whenever two sailboats are on the water they are racing.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Absolutely true!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This past summer I chartered a &lt;a href="http://www.barecat.com/lagoon38.htm"&gt;38’ Lagoon catamaran sailboat&lt;/a&gt; in the &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;British  Virgin Islands&lt;/st1:place&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Twice there were larger (that means potentially fast—due to physics) boats in front of us, heading for the same destination.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Each time we tried to catch them.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Both times we gain on the “competition.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We tried to do quicker, more efficient turns.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I constantly adjusted the sails.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Our wives thought we were nuts!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;(Note:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;we probably were!)&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We had a great time.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I can sail!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Sailing is like surfing—you prepare, you can’t plan.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;You may have a destination but the wind direction, speed, current, type of boat, status of the sails, etc., all impact how and when you will arrive at your destination.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;McNeal challenges churches to be in the preparation business, not in the planning business.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He asserts that God is the one who plans; we have to be prepared to get on board with his plan.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;            &lt;/span&gt;This morning I drove to a church site in a part of the state unfamiliar to me. The church had no sign on the road or even on the church property. The only clue I had that I was at the right place was a church van in the parking lot with the church’s name on it.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Before I got out of my car I knew the congregation was not expecting any nonclub members to show up.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Sure enough, what I discovered inside was a group of people content to grow older and fewer in number as long as they could enjoy their religious club meetings and keep members services paid for (including the chaplain “pastor” they hired to look after them).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The pastor told me that new people to the area didn’t feel welcome there.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I never would have known!&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: right;" align="right"&gt;-McNeal, “The Present Future,” pages 97-98.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;How does a church (or an individual Christian) prepare to catch the “wave” of God?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This will not be an easy thing to do.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The next several postings will look at McNeal’s five elements of preparation:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;vision, values, results, strengths and learnings.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-308301818332760097?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/308301818332760097/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=308301818332760097' title='0 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/308301818332760097'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/308301818332760097'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/04/present-futurenew-reality-5the-shift.html' title='The Present Future—New Reality #5—The Shift from Planning to Preparation.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>0</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-8960987790374008548</id><published>2008-04-15T09:38:00.001-07:00</published><updated>2008-04-15T09:38:31.618-07:00</updated><title type='text'>The Present Future—New Reality #4—The Return to Spiritual Formation.</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;            &lt;/span&gt;Christians (evangelicals especially) emphasize that our connectivity to God is through a relationship with Jesus.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We talk about giving him our hearts or inviting him into our hearts.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We use love language to talk about committing our lives to him.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Then, as soon as the deal is done, we switch the language and go to head stuff.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We pull out the notebooks.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We go over what we believe, information about the church, and so on.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/i&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;            &lt;/span&gt;I have learned a few things about Cathy in our two-plus decades of marriage. I have discovered what she likes and doesn’t like.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I have learned about her family.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I don’t know about her.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I know her!&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: right;" align="right"&gt;-McNeal, “The Present Future,” page. 70.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;            &lt;/span&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;A person who claims to be a follower of Jesus claims to have a relationship with him.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This means they know him, not just about him (this was Paul’s claim in Philippians 3:10).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Yet &lt;b style=""&gt;we have turned our churches into groups of people who are studying God as though they were taking a course at school or attending a business seminar.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We aim at the head.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We don’t deal in relationship.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;And we wonder why there is no passion for Jesus and his mission?&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;b style=""&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;[bold in original]&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: right;" align="right"&gt;-McNeal, page 70.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;b style=""&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;            &lt;/span&gt;Instead of dumping a packet of church club membership stuff on them, why not interview them about what they would like to see happen in their lives in terms of their spiritual development and personal growth?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;[bold in original]&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: right;" align="right"&gt;-McNeal, page 76.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I stand (actually I am seated) convicted.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Evergreen Presbyterian Church’s next “new member” class is in a few weeks.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It is really a very good seminar.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We make no assumptions about a person’s spiritual development or knowledge.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We are in the “unchurched” northwest.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;People have taken “ideas” from various religious paths that seem to appeal to them and try to synthesize them into a worldview, a belief system.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Our seminar seeks to introduce people to Jesus, faith, and yes, the Presbyterian Church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We stress that faith is a journey and that we are making commitments to them and that we expect certain things from them (we DO NOT give them a pledge card) -- we expect spiritual growth.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;A lot of what we seek to do is to help the newcomer build a lasting relationship with Jesus.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;At least that is the theory.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The problem is that much of this happens in the follow-up seminar and too many people don’t take that seminar.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;After all, they have received their membership certificate.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They are now a part of the club.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They have arrived.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They are “in.”&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;McNeal strongly advocates life coaching for spiritual growth.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This approach to spiritual growth is tailored to the individual.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Coaching requires commitment, close contact between the coach and the individual and accountability.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I join the local YMCA in January 2007. &lt;span style=""&gt; &lt;/span&gt;LOTS of people join the Y as a part of their New Year’s resolutions.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;2007 was a typical year for that type of thing.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I heard many regulars lament the crowded weight rooms.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They knew that in just a few months the new crowds would disappear.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;In an effort to assist these hordes of new comers our Y has an offer that is too good to pass up.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I met with Dana, a trainer.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Dana helped me design a work out to meet my goals.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;She helped me find my range of motion for each machine.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I worked out in a special room where all of the machines are linked to a computerize system.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Dana knew what I was doing and when.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Dana would check in on my progress every couple of weeks.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I was sick for a couple of weeks and unable to work out.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I received an e-mail from Dana to see why I wasn’t working out.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Some time later, I pulled a muscle in my leg—it severely limited what I could do at the Y.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Again, Dana contacted me.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;She held me accountable to my health and exercise goals.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;What would happen if every newcomer to a congregation was expected to meet with a coach?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The coach and newcomer would design an individualized spiritual development plan.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;There would be accountability.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I suspect that spiritual growth would occur.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We would also be communicating that we are interested in the newcomer as an individual.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Implementing this type of approach would be challenging.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;People who are vested in a church culture could be hesitant to accept such a change.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Accountability?!?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Can’t I just come and sit in the pew (or chair, in Evergreen’s case)?&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;It is easy for me to say that I stand convicted.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The difficult thing is doing something about it.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I am going to be praying about how I can adapt the coaching element into our next new member class.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;A small start.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;A step in the right direction?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-8960987790374008548?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/8960987790374008548/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=8960987790374008548' title='2 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8960987790374008548'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8960987790374008548'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/04/present-futurenew-reality-4the-return.html' title='The Present Future—New Reality #4—The Return to Spiritual Formation.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>2</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-1927630792831865590</id><published>2008-04-11T09:55:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-04-11T09:56:17.484-07:00</updated><title type='text'>The Present Future—New Reality #3—The New Reformation:  Releasing God’s People.</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;This new reality has to go hand-in-hand with new reality #2 (Kingdom thinking).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;If we are going to shift our emphasis from building the church to building the kingdom then we must deploy our people in a different way.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We will keep offering things for “club” members to do if we want to build up the club.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We will have to send people away from the church building if we insist of building up the &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;Kingdom&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt; of &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;God&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;.  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Doing things away from the “church” building if a fabulous idea—and terrifying!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Almost every day I spend time at a local coffee shop doing some of my “work.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I connect with lots of people even though I generally have music playing though my ear buds.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;There is one accountability group from our church that meets at the same coffee shop.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;However, almost everything else for the church happens in the “church” building. &lt;span style="font-family: Wingdings;"&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;L&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;There are a few things that happen in private homes.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Every Wednesday our “Lunch bunch” meets at the church for lunch, Bible study and fellowship.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Saturday morning Men’s study meets in the church kitchen.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The deacons meet in the church library.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Women’s Association meets at the church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Session meets in the homes of the Elders—just to make sure that they get out of the church building!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Yesterday I mentioned &lt;a href="http://www.kitsapalive.com/index.html"&gt;&lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Alive&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt; &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Covenant&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt; &lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;Church&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt;&lt;/a&gt; (&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;Poulsbo&lt;/st1:City&gt;, &lt;st1:state st="on"&gt;Washington&lt;/st1:State&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The people of Alive spend most of their “church” time away from the typical church building.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They are out in the community.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I am hoping to meet with the pastor of Alive in the next week or two.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;What would happen if Evergreen moved most of its “stuff’ away from our church building?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Here are some possibilities:&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;ul style="margin-top: 0in;" type="disc"&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Move      the Presbyterian Women’s (PW) meeting to the &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Azalea&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt;      &lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;Gardens&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt; clubhouse and change its      name—&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Azalea&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt; &lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;Gardens&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt; is a large “retirement”      community in the Graham area.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Most      (if not all) of the ladies involved in PW are the age of the ladies that      live in &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Azalea&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt;       &lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;Gardens&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I am confident that that PW group would      double in size in just a short period of time.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;PW would be taking Jesus into the world.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Move      the Lunch Bunch to a retirement community—The Lunch Bunch has about 25      seniors that meet each week.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They      could double in size if they were to move to a location where seniors      gather, or live.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;For      the men’s group I am still stumped!&lt;span style=""&gt;       &lt;/span&gt;I am writing this at &lt;i style=""&gt;The      Oasis&lt;/i&gt; and just asked some of the “regulars” to help me identify where      older men in this area go to hang out with other men.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We could not identify a single      place.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We could not identify a single      place where the older men could go that would be a draw for other older      men.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;To be honest, the couple I      talked to would rather do things as a couple than apart!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Interesting!&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;I just      found out that one church’s youth group meets at a coffee shop (not &lt;i style=""&gt;The &lt;/i&gt;Oasis) on Friday evenings and      the coffee shop owner shows appropriate movies.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;There      are two shooting (gun) clubs in the area.&lt;span style=""&gt;       &lt;/span&gt;We have people from our church that are involved in both of the gun      clubs.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;What would happen if some      group from our church would meet at one of the gun clubs on a Saturday      morning?&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Evergreen      sponsors a Boy Scout troop.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This      troop is VERY active.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They are gone      on an outing every two or three weeks.&lt;span style=""&gt;       &lt;/span&gt;In the summer they go on at least one 50 mile hike.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;What would happen if one or two of our      men would become the “pastors” of the Scout Troop?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;These guys would go on all of the trips      with the Scouts and lead worship, Bible studies and discussions on all of      these trips.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They could have a      profound impact of the lives of young men!&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;The      list could go on and on.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent: 0.25in;"&gt;“&lt;i style=""&gt;Until we start making heroes of people who decide to be and act like missionaries, we will fail to turn club members into missionaries.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Until we bless people who ‘go out’ from us to reach people who may not come to us, we will continue to have a kingdom vision that is shrink-wrapped to church programs and church real estate.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Until we start adopting schools and hosting community food banks and teaching parenting seminars and hold financial planning seminars for the people who come to us for food, we will keep fostering club member mentality.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent: 0.25in;"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;I had just spoken to a group of church leaders in a small town.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Representatives of three different churches were present.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I pleaded with them to consider doing less church stuff and doing more ministry aimed at the pre-Christian culture.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;When I finished speaking, a man approached me and introduced himself to me as a deacon in his church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He said, ‘From now on, when some idea comes up for something new to do at our church, I am going to ask the question, Who is this for?’&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent: 0.25in;"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;Who is this for? may be a good way for you to begin your own journey from member to missionary.”&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: right;" align="right"&gt;-McNeal, &lt;i style=""&gt;The Present Future&lt;/i&gt;, pages 67-68.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Our congregation does a great job of supporting missionaries.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Our congregation (including me) does a horrible job of having every person at our church BE a missionary. Churches that make this shift will thrive and make a difference in the world.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Churches that fail to make this shift will continue to be “holy huddles,” basically ignoring the masses of people around us who do not know Christ Jesus.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-1927630792831865590?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/1927630792831865590/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=1927630792831865590' title='4 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/1927630792831865590'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/1927630792831865590'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/04/present-futurenew-reality-3the-new.html' title='The Present Future—New Reality #3—The New Reformation:  Releasing God’s People.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>4</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-5764212301105916802</id><published>2008-04-10T09:23:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-04-10T09:30:26.548-07:00</updated><title type='text'>The Present Future—New Reality #2—The Shift from Church Growth to Kingdom Growth.</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;This new reality has the wrong title.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;McNeal makes the strong case for moving the focus of the church’s activity away from the church building and taking it to the streets.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I believe that the title should be, “Taking it to the Streets.”  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Taking the gospel to the streets would means:&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;ul style="margin-top: 0in;" type="disc"&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Going      to where the people already are gathering.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Earning      the right to be heard.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Getting      dirty for God.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Being      able to articulate why we are doing what we are doing in a way that is      clearly Christ focused.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;“…church leaders didn’t know how to deal with a church that moved from a privileged position to a church in exile in an increasingly alien culture.”&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: right;" align="right"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt;"&gt;-McNeal, &lt;i style=""&gt;The Present Future&lt;/i&gt;, page 21.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;“It’s amazing what we don’t see when we aren’t looking… Religious people don’t see people, they see causes, behaviors, stereotypes, people ‘other’ than them.”&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: right;" align="right"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt;"&gt;-McNeal, &lt;i style=""&gt;The Present Future&lt;/i&gt;, page 28.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I was talking with an &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Evangelical&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt; &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Covenant&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt;  &lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;Church&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt; pastor the other day.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;As a part of our conversation he told me about the &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Covenant&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt; &lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;Church&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt; in &lt;st1:city st="on"&gt;Poulsbo&lt;/st1:City&gt;, &lt;st1:state st="on"&gt;WA&lt;/st1:State&gt;, &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Alive&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt;  &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Covenant&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt; &lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;Church&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.kitsapalive.com/index.html"&gt;Alive Covenant&lt;/a&gt; lives McNeal’s new reality #2.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Alive meets together for worship once a month (called &lt;a href="http://www.kitsapalive.com/fourfiftysixpm.html"&gt;4:56pm&lt;/a&gt;)—the first Sunday of the month. &lt;span style=""&gt; &lt;/span&gt;The gathering begins with a featured artist performing from 4:30pm – 4:56pm.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Worship goes from 4:56pm – 6:00pm.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;One Sunday a month the entire congregation meets in &lt;a href="http://www.kitsapalive.com/housechurches.html"&gt;house churches&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;One Sunday a month each house church does a service project (called &lt;a href="http://www.kitsapalive.com/onestepin.html"&gt;1 Step&lt;/a&gt;) in the community.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;One Sunday a month is Celebration—a time for church folks to gather together to build relationships and enjoy each other’s company (see the link for house churches).&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Moving from church growth to kingdom growth is difficult!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;North American Christians have been conditioned to huddle together every Sunday.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We have been conditioned to have a Sunday School, a VBS and an organ.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We have been conditioned to being keepers of the truth instead of being workers of the kingdom.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Making the shift will be difficult for liberal/progressive churches &lt;u&gt;and&lt;/u&gt; for conservative/evangelical churches.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We are all vested in the current system.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We fight for our causes.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We believe that we are keepers of the truth.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;All the while, we are irrelevant to the surrounding culture.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Both types of churches spend most of their time hiding inside of church walls.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I have a crazy idea… it is too crazy to even put in print at this time.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Personal notes:&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;ul style="margin-top: 0in;" type="disc"&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Glenn,      let’s set to a time to talk and begin praying about this crazy idea.&lt;/li&gt;&lt;li class="MsoNormal" style=""&gt;Kyle:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Your wife told me that you liked the      &lt;a href="http://s226.photobucket.com/albums/dd177/The_Dahlia_Guy/"&gt;photos of my dahlias&lt;/a&gt; last summer and fall.&lt;span style=""&gt;       &lt;/span&gt;I have some dahlia tubers and plants that I am going to give you      guys as a “baby present.”&lt;/li&gt;&lt;/ul&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-5764212301105916802?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/5764212301105916802/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=5764212301105916802' title='2 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/5764212301105916802'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/5764212301105916802'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/04/present-futurenew-reality-2the-shift.html' title='The Present Future—New Reality #2—The Shift from Church Growth to Kingdom Growth.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>2</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-7927444614894236253</id><published>2008-04-09T09:17:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-04-09T09:25:27.108-07:00</updated><title type='text'>The Present Future—New Reality #1—The Collapse of the Church Culture. (continued)</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;North American Christians think in terms of its institutional expression, the church, as opposed to thinking about Christianity in terms of a movement.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This shift in thinking is so profound that it resembles a deconversion, a deprogramming that we typically associate with helping people escape the clutches of a cult.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Deconversion will require a disentangling, and intentional self-differentiation from church in order to gain perspective, a willingness to abandon church club member mentality for the sake of following Jesus. &lt;/i&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: right;" align="right"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt;"&gt;-McNeal, &lt;i style=""&gt;&lt;a href="http://www.amazon.com/Present-Future-Tough-Questions-Church/dp/0787965685"&gt;The Present Futur&lt;/a&gt;e&lt;/i&gt;, page 11.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;[Note:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The next quote is referring to the 2002 mine collapse in &lt;st1:state st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Pennsylvania&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:State&gt; and the rescue efforts to save the minors.] &lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;The church in &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;North America&lt;/st1:place&gt; far too often resembles these miners.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Feeling trapped in the collapse of the church culture, club members are huddling together in the dark and praying for God to rescue them from the mess they are in.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This is the refuge mentality that pervades the mentality of many congregations and church leaders.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Instead, the church needs to adopt the role of the rescue workers on the surface.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They refused to quit, worked 24/7, and were willing to go to plan B or whatever it took to effect a rescue.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;            &lt;/span&gt;That’s the church’s mission:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;to join God in his redemptive efforts to save the world.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;People all around us are in darkness.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They are going to die unless someone finds a way to save them.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Trouble is, the church is sleeping on the job.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Too many of us have forgotten why we showed up for work.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;            &lt;/span&gt;Even worse, many of us never have known.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: right;" align="right"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt;"&gt;-&lt;a href="http://www.m7conference.org/tabid/61/Default.aspx"&gt;McNeal&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;i style=""&gt;The Present Future&lt;/i&gt;, page 19.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;There will be a membership class at Evergreen on May 18&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;People are going to join the club—I mean the church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Many of those headed for the class have been worshipping with us for a year or more. They are an integral part of our congregation—but they aren’t “members.”&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Next week I will be writing letters to 25 people who are “members” of Evergreen Presbyterian Church--ome of which haven’t been in worship for years.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They are on the active membership roll because of “family members.”&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;“We could lose ____________ if we move their kids to the inactive roll” has been heard in many-a-church session meeting.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) resembles most of the local service clubs in our communities.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The only difference that I can see is that the local service clubs REQUIRE their members to be at the meetings on a consistent basis!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;McNeal’s idea of “deconversion” carries a bite that hurts—it hurts a lot!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I see a need for local churches.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We NEED to worship with other believers.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We NEED to stand together in spiritual warfare (see &lt;a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%206:10-20&amp;amp;version=31"&gt;Ephesians 6&lt;/a&gt; and notice that the back is left unprotected).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Too many of our churches are like a club.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Too many of those in our churches cannot articulate a saving experience with Jesus.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Too many of those in our churches do absolutely nothing to reach those who are apart from Jesus.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The North American Church does need to under go a deconversion experience.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;McNeal’s example of huddling together like the miners is powerful.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Last week I was at a Presbytery meeting.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;One person tried to guilt us into taking a special offering for a particular project.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;One report talked about those churches that had failed to pay their per capita (our membership tax) for 2007.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We had the first reading of a policy paper on how to deal with congregations that may want to leave our little club.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We had a “talking circle” so that we can get to know each other better.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I felt like I was sitting in a Graham Business Association meeting!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The meeting was filled with people with gray hair, no hair and died hair.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;There was no discussion on how to reach the 1000s of people who have moved into the bounds of our Presbytery. &lt;span style=""&gt; &lt;/span&gt;There was no discussion on how to reach the two generations that are missing from our churches.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;To the Presbytery’s credit we did talk about the continued efforts to assist the flood victims of the devastating 2007 floods in our state.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;For the most part it felt like we were huddling together, hoping that the world would change.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;McNeal’s reality # 1 is that the church culture is no more.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;There are lots of reasons why this has happened.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Blame can be spread all around.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;However, here is the key point—what are we going to do about the new reality?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Wanting things to change is not the right answer—it is living in denial.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-7927444614894236253?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/7927444614894236253/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=7927444614894236253' title='1 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/7927444614894236253'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/7927444614894236253'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/04/present-futurenew-reality-1the-collapse_09.html' title='The Present Future—New Reality #1—The Collapse of the Church Culture. (continued)'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>1</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-50155643363711699</id><published>2008-04-08T15:29:00.001-07:00</published><updated>2008-04-08T15:29:44.561-07:00</updated><title type='text'>The Present Future—New Reality #1—The Collapse of the Church Culture.</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;b style=""&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;The current church culture in &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;North America&lt;/st1:place&gt; is on life support.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It is living off the work, money, and energy of previous generations from a previous world order.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The plug will be pulled either when the money runs out (80 percent of money given to congregations comes from people aged fifty-five and older) or when the remaining three-fourths of a generation who are institutional loyalists die off or both. &lt;/i&gt;[bold text and parenthetical phrase are in the book]  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: right;" align="right"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt;"&gt;-McNeal, &lt;i style=""&gt;The Present Future&lt;/i&gt;, page 1.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;b style=""&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;A growing number of people are leaving the institutional church for a new reason.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They are not leaving because they have lost faith.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;b style=""&gt;They are leaving the church to preserve their faith.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They contend that the church no longer contributes to their spiritual development.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;In fact, they say, quite the opposite is true.&lt;/i&gt; [bold text is in the book]&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: right;" align="right"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt;"&gt;-McNeal, &lt;i style=""&gt;The Present Future&lt;/i&gt;, page 4.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Help!?!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I am caught between two worlds.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I live, work and serve God in an institutional church of a previous world order.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Evergreen Presbyterian Church is a great church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We have been able to make significant changes at the church over the past seven or eight years.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;But one thing has remained the same—we still look, feel and act like an “institutional” church.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;For the past fifteen (or so) years I have seen the “institutional” church in a death spiral.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I have witnessed denominational and presbytery leaders fight with all their might to try and keep the institutional beast alive.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;They have reorganized, reshaped, re-thissed, and re thatted (how is that for a new word).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Nothing has worked.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The PCUSA and most denominations should call the denominational hospice folks to find a way to die with dignity.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;It is amazing that this morning I took part in one of the surveys of the Presbyterian Panel.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;There were lots of questions concerning my health.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It wanted to know whether I thought that I am healthy and what I was going to do about my health.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I was horrified that the survey didn’t ask me about my weight or % body fat.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The survey wanted to know if I thought that I considered myself young, middle-aged, old or very old.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;As if it matters if I “think” that I am middle-aged or not.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I am 51!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I am middle-aged whether I think that I am or not!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The father of a person at our church is 85+ years old and in a care facility.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He hates being there with all of those “old” people.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;His daughter had to point out that he WAS one of those old people.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Our perception may be our reality but it does not change REALITY.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;McNeal does go on to say that the &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;church&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt; of &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Jesus Christ&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt; is not going to die!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I firmly believe this.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The institution of a previous reality is going to die.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Evergreen Presbyterian Church in many ways reflects what the institutional church is facing.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We have a HUGE population of wonderful, old people (late 70s and older).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;If we keep doing things the same way we have always done them we will be in peril within a few years.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The leadership of our church is already beginning to tackle this problem. &lt;span style=""&gt; &lt;/span&gt;We are going to deal with issues that will make some people feel uncomfortable.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Just the other day I was at a Presbytery meeting.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It was “church” as usual.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Nothing of substance was dealt with.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;There was nothing there that would cause me to ask one of our “employed” elders to miss their work.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The worship was wonderful—but I worship every week at Evergreen and in my daily life.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I saw a bunch of people who are vested in the “church” of a prior time trying to hold on for all their worth.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;One report was given and the presenter tried to guilt us into taking a special offering for a particular “mission” effort of the Presbytery.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This mission became a part of the Presbytery because of the interest of two or three people, our General Presbyter and on church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;No one asked Evergreen what we thought about this mission.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We support a mission effort in &lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;Chile&lt;/st1:country-region&gt;, a village in &lt;st1:state st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;Alaska&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:State&gt;, and other short term mission efforts around the world.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We are not going to be “guilted” by the institutional church (Presbytery) to support a pet project of a few people.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The Presbytery isn’t my “church,” even though that is where I am FORCED to have my membership.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I view myself as a member of Evergreen even if the denomination says that I am not a member there.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;This is the thinking of a prior church existence.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;So I am torn.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I live and work in the institutional church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I lead a congregation that is seeking to face the new reality of an unchurched culture and the later stages of the life of the institutional church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;My kids are a part of a generation that moves and lives apart from denominations.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Will the Presbyterian Church be so rooted to the past that we will once again be the losers (like in the 1&lt;sup&gt;st&lt;/sup&gt; and 2&lt;sup&gt;nd&lt;/sup&gt; Great Awakenings)?&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Individual churches will thrive.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Individual churches will die.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Denomination will come and go.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:placetype st="on"&gt;church&lt;/st1:PlaceType&gt; of &lt;st1:placename st="on"&gt;Jesus Christ&lt;/st1:PlaceName&gt;&lt;/st1:place&gt; will thrive—with us or without us.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-50155643363711699?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/50155643363711699/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=50155643363711699' title='3 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/50155643363711699'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/50155643363711699'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/04/present-futurenew-reality-1the-collapse.html' title='The Present Future—New Reality #1—The Collapse of the Church Culture.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>3</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-8931211664461763087</id><published>2008-04-07T11:26:00.000-07:00</published><updated>2008-04-07T11:29:27.542-07:00</updated><title type='text'>The Present Future:  Six Tough Questions for the Church.</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;Once again I have stumbled across a book that has caused me to think (yes, there are actually times when I sit and think!).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The book is by &lt;a href="http://www.leadnet.org/about_OurStaff.asp?bio=rmcneal#bio"&gt;Reggie McNeal&lt;/a&gt; and is called &lt;i style=""&gt;&lt;a href="The%20Present%20Future:%20%20Six%20Tough%20Questions%20for%20the%20Church."&gt;The Present Future:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Six Tough Questions for the Church&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I will be looking at this challenging book over the next few days.  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;Ministry and the church have been my world.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;But it is a world that I increasingly find difficult to feel at home in because it lacks spiritual purpose and missional vitality.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;I’m talking about the church world in &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;North America&lt;/st1:place&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;A world that has largely forsaken its missional covenant with God to be a part of kingdom expansion.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;It has, instead, substituted its own charter of church as a clubhouse where religious people hang out with other people who think, dress, behave, vote, and believe like them.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: right;" align="right"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt;"&gt;-McNeal, &lt;i style=""&gt;The Present Future&lt;/i&gt;, pages xv-xvi.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;This morning I spoke with a young pastor who has hopes for the future of the church but is currently captive to club members in the congregation he serves.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;“I wonder why I am still doing this,” he sighed.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;He’s only thirty years old!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Some of us are asking this question after many more years of investment. If you are, I am writing to give legitimization to your concerns and doubts about the church culture, but also to give you hope.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;b style=""&gt;I want to help you by giving you ways of starting conversations that might lead you out of church captivity and into the adventure you anticipated.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;(Note:&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;bold text is in the book)&lt;i style=""&gt; &lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: right;" align="right"&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 10pt;"&gt;-McNeal, &lt;i style=""&gt;The Present Future&lt;/i&gt;, page xvi.&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The “church” is in trouble!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;A couple of years ago my wife and I chartered a narrow boat and spent a wonderful week on the canals of &lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;England&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:country-region&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We had the pleasure of seeing the countryside at 4 knots (a little over 3 mph for those land lubbers out there).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We stopped and walked into every village we came to.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Every town/village had a church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Most churches have very few people that attend services.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;My heart wept as I had glimpse of what might be the future for the North American church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;I know that there are churches that are alive and well in &lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;England&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:country-region&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The problem is that they are few and far between. The “church” in &lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;England&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:country-region&gt; has moved well beyond the point of being in trouble!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;I have been teaching a class on church history.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;As a &lt;i style=""&gt;Purpose Driven&lt;/i&gt; Presbyterian Church Evergreen is striving to produce well-rounded disciples of Christ.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Most Christians have no concept of church history.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We need to understand the past in order to move into a preferred future.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;We have just looked at the 1&lt;sup&gt;st&lt;/sup&gt; and 2&lt;sup&gt;nd&lt;/sup&gt; Great Awakenings in the &lt;st1:country-region st="on"&gt;&lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;United States&lt;/st1:place&gt;&lt;/st1:country-region&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Presbyterian Church was one of the “big losers” during those times of God’s pouring out of his Spirit.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;The Presbyterian Church missed the wave because it was so vested in doing things the way they had always been done.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The “church” is in trouble!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;Too many churches have become a country club.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Too many churches have become a political action committee.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Too many churches have become so inward focused that they can’t see past the walls of the church.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Too many churches have become so interested in changing social structures that that they have forgotten that people are going to go to hell because they have not been “born again” (Jesus’ words, not mine).&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Too many churches have lost spiritual purpose and a missional calling.&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;The “church” is in trouble!&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;i style=""&gt;The Present Future&lt;/i&gt; is going to challenge us—it has sure been challenging me!&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Let’s journey together in looking at the present future of the church.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div class="blogger-post-footer"&gt;&lt;img width='1' height='1' src='https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/tracker/22981256-8931211664461763087?l=fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com' alt='' /&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</content><link rel='replies' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/feeds/8931211664461763087/comments/default' title='Post Comments'/><link rel='replies' type='text/html' href='http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=22981256&amp;postID=8931211664461763087' title='2 Comments'/><link rel='edit' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8931211664461763087'/><link rel='self' type='application/atom+xml' href='http://www.blogger.com/feeds/22981256/posts/default/8931211664461763087'/><link rel='alternate' type='text/html' href='http://fullcourtpresby.blogspot.com/2008/04/present-future-six-tough-questions-for.html' title='The Present Future:  Six Tough Questions for the Church.'/><author><name>Pastor Lance</name><email>noreply@blogger.com</email><gd:image rel='http://schemas.google.com/g/2005#thumbnail' width='16' height='16' src='http://img2.blogblog.com/img/b16-rounded.gif'/></author><thr:total>2</thr:total></entry><entry><id>tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-122064960066569816</id><published>2008-03-27T10:16:00.001-07:00</published><updated>2008-03-27T10:16:25.492-07:00</updated><title type='text'>Easter—Where you can get arrested.</title><content type='html'>&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;Our daughter has a passion for sharing the good news of Jesus Christ with those who do not know him.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Last year she was in a country that gives lip service to religious freedom. While she was in that country, the government was cracking down on churches in another part of the country.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;Pastors were being arrested and sent to camps for their re-education. She was not there for Easter.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;She was a part of a team that was preparing the way for reaching an unreached people group.  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;&lt;o:p&gt; &lt;/o:p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;  &lt;p class="MsoNormal"&gt;She is once again in a country that is hostile towards Christians.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;On the other side of the country the government has been closing Christian churches and arresting pastors.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;All of this is going on in &lt;st1:place st="on"&gt;North Africa&lt;/st1:place&gt;.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;She works with Muslim refugees.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;She is building relationships with Muslim women and girls.&lt;span style=""&gt;  &lt;/span&gt;For Eas
