tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post116058124180605914..comments2023-11-03T05:55:53.586-07:00Comments on Full Court Presby: What if… the Presbytery? Part 2Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-1160683336513105342006-10-12T13:02:00.000-07:002006-10-12T13:02:00.000-07:00Some of our presbyters DO use a "code of silence" ...Some of our presbyters DO use a "code of silence" which, in essence, black-balls ministers whom the presbyter does not like or agree with. This is unethical, and I don't understand why they are allowed to do this. A Minister of Word and Sacrament can spend years studying and preparing as well as spending a great deal of money for schooling; yet, a presbyter can flush all of that down the drain with thirty seconds of silence when another presbyter makes reference calls. Will you please explain this to me? A Sister in ChristAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-1160671444635715412006-10-12T09:44:00.000-07:002006-10-12T09:44:00.000-07:00Why the assumption that the old power structure is...Why the assumption that the old power structure is sinful? <BR/><BR/>My guess is that idea came up to deal with the racism issue - which was a worthy cause but now if we are honest it is being used to deal with the pro Bible crowd.<BR/><BR/>Frankly that disenfranchisement model is a historical aberation.<BR/><BR/>I mean really- can we imagine a Church that told the Jerusalem Council it had to break up because they had been around too long?<BR/><BR/>that would sound something like this:<BR/>"James - you need to move out of power - we know you were the brother of Jesus and all so we see a real power block developing here and we need to disenfranchise that for the good of the Church."Bill Crawfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05748091341766506913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-1160670077294919252006-10-12T09:21:00.000-07:002006-10-12T09:21:00.000-07:00Good call, Dave: McCarthyism of the Left.Good call, Dave: McCarthyism of the Left.Noelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13589352489192698500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-1160669764998853122006-10-12T09:16:00.000-07:002006-10-12T09:16:00.000-07:00QG:There is a different way of doing things upon r...QG:<BR/><BR/>There is a different way of doing things upon retirement of a long-term pastor. IIRC, a large PCUSA church in Colorado Springs called a co-pastor to serve alongside the soon-to-retire senior pastor during the last year of his ministry. Upon the retirement, the co-pastor became the senior pastor.<BR/><BR/>Of course, I can imagine getting this through COM and presbytery was more than a little daunting. But they persevered.<BR/><BR/>I also agree that the process (most of which is _not_ in the BOO, but the individual presbytery's policy manual) is way too slow.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-1160665592215694092006-10-12T08:06:00.000-07:002006-10-12T08:06:00.000-07:00Ah the joys of self interest--read SIN. Although ...Ah the joys of self interest--read SIN. Although Presbyteries do cause us to follow our Constitution, it seems to me that our dissatisfaction has to do with how WE are inconvenienced, rather than seeking to serve God. My experience as a moderator of COM is such that it is a good thing our constitution prohibits automatic promotions from within, promotions which our history confirms merely keeps the current power structure intact at the expense of God's intentional leading of the Holy Spirit. As to the abuse of Presbytery authority, I concur that much needs to be done, such as having fewer EP types and having them work out the Synod and serve several presbyteries, not one. We have grown dangerously close to having bishops, ie, one powerful person operating behind the scenes affecting our very life together.<BR/><BR/>It is time to change the effectiveness of our presbyteries so that they accomplish God's will, and not our own.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-1160665094858017092006-10-12T07:58:00.000-07:002006-10-12T07:58:00.000-07:00One of the more encouraging aspects at the GAC joi...One of the more encouraging aspects at the GAC joint meeting with synod/presby execs two weeks ago was that they were openly questioning the whole sturcture question. Do we need synods? Do we have too many presbyteries? Etc. I get a sense that many execs (by no means all) or questioning major portions of how we all relate to each other. Keep pressing your issues!Michael Krusehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07562574596754907146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-1160599149493356322006-10-11T13:39:00.000-07:002006-10-11T13:39:00.000-07:00Right on!!!!Another issue is giving voice and vote...Right on!!!!<BR/><BR/>Another issue is giving voice and vote to non-pulpit and retired pastors. Ordained ministers who are not actively serving a congregation as a pastor or associate pastor should not get voice and vote at presbytery. <BR/><BR/>If they want to have voice and vote then let them become active pastors. There are more than 3,000 PCUSA churches without a pastor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22981256.post-1160595009471278882006-10-11T12:30:00.000-07:002006-10-11T12:30:00.000-07:00Oh, yeah, what dave said.Especially about the hind...Oh, yeah, what dave said.<BR/><BR/>Especially about the hinderances to calling new pastors. Retirement of a long-time senior pastor at my church is looming and I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain why we just can't call our wonderful associate as the senior. I can explain it, but can't defend it.<BR/><BR/>It's insane to risk killing the congregation with our current balky system. There must be a "more excellent way."Jody Harringtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08031378214797420014noreply@blogger.com